308/328 HorsePower Hop-up/Upgrade

Russ here did an extensive comparison on headers as he built his engine...

Sorry to say 100HP you are going to have to supercharge or spray nitrous!!!

 

Enzo Ferrari was all about performance.

Dersono, what do you reckon... will there be any cheap, no-compromise hp on the shelve that he didn't tap into???

Ferrari engines aren't like a Chevy V8's - lazy in OEM form and upgradable.

The 308's are producing 85 hp per liter with a redline of 7700 rpm. The BMW V10 is doing 101 hp per liter at 8500 rpm, which would be roughly 90 hp per liter at 7700 rpm. This is with all the electronic gizmos, vanos, variable intakes and heaven knows what more tricks one can think of.

I agree with Bubba. If you want to go to 120 hp per liter on a 30+ year old engine, a bit of polishing isn't going to do it.

Hans

 

If you want a car with 100hp more why not consider an 355 or 360? You'll have a tough time trying to get an extra 100hp out of a 308/328 without spending a rediculous amount of money, not to mention the "performance upgrades" will probably reduce the value of the car.

Best regards,
Dino

 

EFI, porting, cams, compression, exhaust and you'll get 320-340hp out of it....but it's not cheap.

 

I built competition and performance engines for years but I have to admit if I wanted to get 100 more HP in a 328 I'd forget all the performance type mods we did and I'd install nitrous. It's easy, cheap, and removeable with no evidence it was ever there. Adding 100 HP SHOULD be fairly safe on a 250+ HP engine. The disadvantage, of course, is that it requires refilling after around 100 seconds of use for a standard bottle at 100hp. Nitrous kits are now NOT like they were 20 years ago. I wouldn't hesitate to put nitrous on a 328 if I wanted a power boost though I'd probably start at a 50 shot and work up to no more than 100. In fact, I've been thinking of exactly that for my new 328...

To me it's a much more practical and safer solution than adding a bunch of performance mods IF you can deal with the refilling thing. This will be a real problem immediately after the NO is installed since everybody loves the punch and tends to use it a lot at first. But once you "settle down" it's surprising how seldom you really "need" the NO. It's usually just to perform an "acceleration contest" and it's seldom that you can use if for more than a few seconds at a time anyway. A 100HP kit can be purchased for less than 800 bucks and you can install it in a couple of hours very easily.

The beauty of NO over anything except a supercharger is that there is absolutely NO adverse effect on driveability. ANYTHING else you do, other than increasing displacement, will reduce driveability. There is no such thing as a high performance cam that helps driveability. SOme folks like to increase compression - it isn't worth much really by itself - you might think it would be worth a lot but a change from say 9.2 - which I believe is the 328 compression, to 12.0 will, at best, give you around 280HP. To make one of these engines put out 350HP with "normal" engine mods would make it a total PITA to drive.

Like I said, I have been seriously thinking of NO but I suppose it would be good to at least drive the car for a few weeks and decide if I really care...

 

If you were dealing with something like a Mustang V8, the options would be simple and relatively inexpensive. But not a 308. Your dealing with an engine almost half the size (178 cubic inch vs about 300 in the Mustang), and its putting twice the power per cubic inch. Power gains on an engine that is already making 80 HP per liter become much more difficult and expensive. If you search the forum and see what others have done, you will soon realise the complexity. The stock headers are pretty good, a Tubi or Ansa muffler or something simular is worth 10 HP or so, so not any great gains for quite a substantial outlay. You could go with Nitrous, but youll suck a bottle empty pretty fast. You could build a wicked high compression ported out fat cam monster, but to gain 100 HP that way will give you an engine that really only likes high rpm and would cost tens of thousands.

If you search out the work Russ has done with his 3.2 Mondial, youll see that although he has not gained 100 HP, he has done a considerable amount of work to make a very robust engine I think most of us would kill for. But I wouldnt be surprised that if one were to try to duplicate his work you would likely spend a small fortune. Ferrari and HP hop up shouldnt ever be used in the same sentence without dollar signs. Lots of them. You hear the phrase "cubic dollars" mentioned around here. In reality you get pretty close by just multiplying by 10. If you can gain 100 HP in a Mustang for $3000, its $30K in a Ferrari. Mustang muffler $200, Ferrari $2000. Mustang camshaft $169, Ferrari camshaft $1600.

From purely a cost and simplicity perspective, a belt driven supercharger would be the best direction to follow.

 

I'd suggest just get a 355! It's already been said, it'll cost way too much to boost a 308 to 350HP, and it'll decrease it's resale value, wierd but true! If I was super wealthy and wanted a fast car but LOVED the style of the 308 (and I do) then maybe a completely custom fabricated car with the 308 body would be possible, expensive, but if I was super wealthy, I really wouldn't care. Then again, I guess I'd get a 288 GTO, yeah, that's what I'd do!

 

The difficulty with any of this is the complexity and the expense, as you noted. As you said, it's not a US V8 with performance parts available fairly cheaply. That's again why I would opt for nitrous - LOTS of power, NO engine changes, no affect on emissions (if that's an issue), and CHEAP! What's not to like (other than the refills)?

 

I'll say that it'll cost at least $100 per HP on the low side and well... easily twice that on the high side. I've done a few superchargers on the 3x8's and powers gains were on average +150hp, this latest one is going for +250hp over stock. for the money you'll spend could buy a 355 after selling the 3x8. but for some it's not about getting the newer model, they really like 3x8 body style and just want more power.

going down the rabbit hole can get out of control....
EFI
cams
pistons
flywheel/clutch
ignition- DIS
super/turbo chargers
nitros
etc....

my mondial is running 415hp not the most seen by monster makers here, Mark I think was upto 600hp, were talking 148hp/L and 187.5hp/L nutty numbers. I've got about 36kmiles now and I'm now going to do a full rebuild again, inspect and upgrade, it's a sickness really.
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if you drive like I do it wont last long enough

but a very cost effective option for quick bursts.

 

Here are some shots of my 3.2 I retro fitted with Webers. If you just do the carbs ($3.5K) and muffler, you'll be around 290 hp, add porting and about 310+, andd some cam and compression and 320+. Very reliable, tons of torque, lots of personality and not that expensive. And the best looking your engine can get.
Whatever you do have fun.

The 3.2 liter QV engine shown has:
10.5:1 compression
Weber 44DCNF carbs with velocity stacks
Ported polished heads with large intake valves
High-lift cams
Tubi s/s headers ceramic coated
custom s/s exhaust, ceramic coated
MSD electronic ignition
Kevlar clutch pack

100 hp/liter, very drivable, very reliable.
Long life, easy to maintain.
The perfect Ferrari V-8 engine (to me).
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What does a 3.2 from a 3.0 upgrade cost? On my 1988 911, I swapped my 3.2 motor for a 993 3.6 motor for about $8,000 (3.6 motor + labor + retro-fit parts - 3.2 motor in exchange). It went from about 214 to 300 hp (no cats needed). The end result was a pretty fun and reliable car.

Funny, that is pretty close to the $100 per bhp figure mentioned earlier. I had never thought of that.

 

Dude, that is a beautiful engine bay.

 

This is what about $NZ250,000 ($150,000 USD equivalent) can get you. Nearly bought this car about 10 years ago -1985 308GTS QV in New Zealand. Michelotto box, 8" twin plate clutch, dry sumped, tubular frame, tubular suspension, 12" vented discs, Brembo 4 pots, Koni aluminium adjustable race shocks, brake bias adjustable in cockpit, fibreglass panels, full race cockpit - seats, harnesses, 2-way RT system, flood extinguisher system, full roll cage, 64 litre fuel cell. Lightweight - about 1/2 the weight of a road car. Normally aspirated, 12:1 compression engine, Carello titanium rods, Ross pistons, larger valves and worked heads, slide valve induction, custom extractors, etcetera, etcetera, dynoed at 394hp. Spun out to 11,000 rpm. Pure race track/ unstreetable. Power to weight amazing.

 

A few of us have done this. Here is a modded 328 motor in my 308 GT4.
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I bought the 3.2 motor out of a wrecked Mondial and when I took delivery of it, I found that it was basically very sound except the fuel injection needed TLC and all the injectors needed replacing. I then discovered that one thing that did not come with the motor was the ECU and so these shortcomings led to decisions to fit sequential EFI, new fuel pumps, new ignition system and run it all via a Motec engine management system. I don't really know what HP it currently produces (though will dyno it again soon)but it seems a lot stronger than a standard 3.2 and the lighter 308gt4 body with the modded 3.2 means the car is quick. It will never win a Concours again but it still looks totally original until you open the lid. Anyone else here replaced a 3.0 with a 3.2 motor?

 

I'm going for the same original look but chose a 5.5 instead of 3.2
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This is one possible route:
JE Forged pistons
Total Seal rings
Re-ground cams
Port matching
Exhaust
Single point distribs
Manley SS valves
Balanced
2 stage fuel system
Powerdyne blower
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In my non-cat 77, I eliminated the spare tire, a/c and tool kit to save weight and put in a free flow exhaust. That cut another 50 lbs. and added 15-20HP. Noticeable difference.

 

how much power do you think that you'd see from a bone stock 308 running no cats and 115 leaded race gas?

 

"how much power do you think that you'd see from a bone stock 308 running no cats and 115 leaded race gas?"

It will make whatever the bone stock HP is supposed to be (assuming the engine is in good condition). Increasing octane over that recommended for the engine has NO effect on HP unless other modifications are made. It does, however, please the folks that make 115 leaded race gas and will also make the valve-job people happy as the lead will increase deposits on the valves.

 

i so want a ride in that when its done, sheesh!

 

308's ain't "fast" in reference to what they cost to mod. you either have a stock one for fun, or you buy something else to go "fast". those who mod the v8 ferrari's are a special breed, and it ain't about the money!