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26805 Restoration Begins

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by wda24729, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior
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    Got it :) Also used on the Lancia Beta Coupe and Spyder.
     

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  2. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Arvid,

    Great Find!

    Here are some pics of the Mondial Seats... and the adjusters look also the same. One would need to confirm if they are in fact the same, but they sure look close.

    Cheers,

    Sam

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  3. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Thanks chaps. Would definitely agree those are the same, although I can't find them on that site. Do you have a link Arvid?

    Bored this afternoon, so onto the interior it is!

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  4. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior
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  5. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior
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  6. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Yes I saw the black one and have made the enquiry. Ive also sent out a few emails to some Lancia specialists. I'll keep you updated. I could potentially get the black ones chrome plated.

    Thanks again for the info
     
  7. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior
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    At some point they became plastic - best alternative is the older models of the series. They originally came from the Lancia 2000 HF Coupe 1971-1974 - my bet is that they are the metal type.
     
  8. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Arvid,

    It does look like the "new" replacements are plastic. Here are some on Ebay that look to be the same...one would need to double check to confirm... but they are plastic at $150 USD for 4 pieces:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lancia-Beta-Complete-Seat-Adjuster-Trim-Cover-Set-New/162524552714

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  9. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Thanks Sam - They look about right. I might take a punt on them. Ive made some enquiries about vacuum plating in silver to match., Just waiting to hear back.

    Busy stripping things out again. Have to say there are some quality fittings on this car, far superior to other cars I have.

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    Those centre console side panels where a mare to get out. There's a bolt at the very front which connects to the side of centre dial cluster, very difficult to reach :(

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    Need to get the powder coating kit out again, some quirky little fittings on the footwell vents that need some attention

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  10. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior
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    Hi Sam,

    Yes,they went the plastic route at some point but the oldest of the mentioned Lancias has the metal type. They say it was due to weight but I think we can agree it was rather a cost issue ;)
     
  11. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    All black leather completed, connalised and finished in satin. Its pretty close to the original finish but the finished cockpit shots below makes it look shinier than it actually is.

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    Meant to finish vacuuming the carpets before I took the shot :(

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    Just waiting for the colour match to be made on my seats. Im not going mad with trying to make them look too good as I like the creases and folds! The good thing is the seat cushions and backrests are the same, so when I rebuild the seats I can swap around to get the best effect. This is probably the worst one.

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    My seat side trims have been dispatched from the US so will report back when I receive them.
     
  12. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #187 samsaprunoff, Jan 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
    Good day Wda,

    You are most welcome! If you do buy those please post up your experience with the silver plating on plastic!

    As for the interior... yup... I have been there... and sadly that is where I have remained. Here are a few pics of how far I dug into the interior...

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    Effectively I had to remove everything in order to properly sort it all out. On the plus side it has given me an opportunity to inspect and clean up any wiring issues as well as test the various electrical items. Speaking of which... I suggest you investigate and clean the window motors, as one of mine was not working and the other was so-so at best. After removing the window motors I opened them up and cleaned everything. The result was that the window motors work fantastic and the up and down speed is on par with modern cars.

    On thing I did notice was that one of my console window switches was melted internally. The damage was severe enough that I have to find a replacement switch, which Ferrari UK luckily had a NOS spare. After measuring the current draw on the motors I surmised that the current is just too high for the switches and most likely the motor got stuck, jammed, and/or gummed up which increased the current so high to cause an excessive amount of heat within the switch... and thus causing the switch insides to melt. To ensure that that this does not happen again, I designed a small elegant relay switching module that I will install inside each door. This will offload the high current draw from the switch circuit and thus will prevent the switch from melting... and no doubt prolong the switch life dramatically


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    Incidentally, the motors do have a surface mount thermal overload switch in case the motors are jammed for an excessive amount of time. Sadly, the thermal switch response time is a bit variable and obviously it did not act fast enough to prevent my switch issue.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  13. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Arvid,

    There is no question that there is a savings in going from metal to plastic... but I am in agreement with you that it was for cost... and not for weight... as if the metal versions of these really affected the weight of the car... Sometimes it would be best if the manufacturer would simply say nothing, as opposed to such a ridiculous and absurd justification.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  14. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Hi Sam - yes window motors are on the list, I just need to move the car to my main garage so I can open the doors fully. I did the same on my 308 and I can't imagine these are much different, the cable system being like a chinese puzzle! I didn't go as far as you on the dash as its in really good condition and this was only supposed to be a 'refresh'!! All electrics work which is a real change based on my previous F-car experience.

    I installed the available boost motors on my 348 but can't help thinking that is just avoiding the issue, hence the strip down on my 308.

    Nice modificaction with the relays.
     
  15. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Wda,

    Indeed, the cable routing is not for the faint of heart. However, I found a thread that had a diagram of the routing and so I used this and my before pictures to make it a bit easier. Here is the picture in case you cannot find it:

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    Ensure you document and/or remember where the cable exists from the motor assembly, as you could route the cable incorrectly

    You may also wish to replace the window felt tracks and the outside rubber lip as well while you are there. Mine were knackered and so I ordered replacements from Cicognani (http://www.cicognaniguarnizioni.it/index.php?route=common/home). Cicognani prices and shipping are reasonable with a turn round time of about a week. Adding to this their replacements were the same or very close to the originals. The only seal that was different was the boot seal and the outer door window "Lip" seal was incorrect for the 365 Gt4 2+2 (which is what I have).

    One more thing... Inspect the window glass rubber bumpers on the bottom rest. On one of my doors the bumpers (2) were missing and the other side they were there but as as hard as metal. Thankfully they hard ones were in good shape aesthetically and so I will be making molds of these to make some replacements. Sadly, I probably will not have time to do this until later this Spring, otherwise I could send you a set if needed.

    As for my dash, etc... All of my interior was simply "done". The car spent virtually all its life in Desert climates and so all the upholstery thread was very brittle and would simply break when pressed. My dash (console, sides, etc) is (are) not leather but "mouse-hair" fabric and it was worn so that the "hair" was missing :). There is only one manufacturer that makes a true replacement and that is HVL (Henk) in the Netherlands. It is/was about 160 Euro a Metre + shipping. My seat, etc leather was extremely dry and had the same issue with the brittle thread and so I simply had to replace it (I used some Connolly replacement hides that were the same OEM color and texture... but, sadly, not the same quality as the original hides). Here are a few pics of my restored pieces:

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    Thank your your complement on my relay board. I was going to over engineer it (like I usually do) with a bit of smarts to make the windows operate like newer cars (e.g. single press auto down/up, press and hold to adjust, etc), but decided to simply keep it simple.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  16. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
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    For information, I just checked the cars I have here, all seat hinge covers are plastic, silver colour: 365 GT4 2+2 (2 cars of 1973), 400 Auto (1978) and 400i Manual (1983).
     
  17. Tassie

    Tassie Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2009
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    Mine are also chrome plastic, including C4 from memory.
     
  18. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Hey Sam - That mousehair work looks fantastic. Im actually quite lucky with this car, the rear seats don't look like they've ever been sat in and the door, boot etc seals are still lovely and soft so no need for replacements.

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    Im still to get all the seals, trims etc off prior to body shop works, but I just wanted to get her mechanical and cosmetically straight before I embarked on more 'parts bins' scattered around the garage. I think I might actually wait until I get my 308 back and finished as all the trims etc are sat waiting for that one!

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  19. Arvid

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    #194 Arvid, Jan 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
    So they are chrome plated plastic then ? They have a metallic feel to them and sure fooled me + the Lancia enthusiast I checked with. Maybe I should listen to my family when saying I need glasses ;)
     
  20. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    I wouldn't say Chrome plated, mine have more of a satin finish so only a slight reflection can be seen. I will experiment when I receive mine and post up results. I also think there are so many broken ones about as they appear they would clip on and people try and prise them off, whereas they are screwed on from the back.

    Another set back again today. WOSP never sent me a new starter, instead they provided me with a spacer :( So I went about fitting this and in the process of on / off firing up today to get my auto box oil levels correct, it decided to stick on, spin with the flywheel and b*****r up! Strongly worded email just sent to WOSP as I have my engine tuner coming out Wednesday for fine fettling....grrr. The only saving grace, it only takes about 20 mins to get these starters out!

    I've just made sure my ignition wires ./ switch are ok, and no problem there.

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  21. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
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    Indeed they give an impression of a shiny surface. So chrome plated plastic would fit as a description. I have one more 400i (1980) in restoration, I will check that one too and let you know.
     
  22. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
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    Did you find the correct window lip seal for the 365 and if so where?
     
  23. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Jim,

    Yes, I did. The part that was the same was from Cicognani:

    http://www.cicognaniguarnizioni.it/raschiavetro-esterno-16322932_6343?search=16322932

    This part is listed for a Daytona, but it was an exact match for my car and fairly inexpensive at 28 Euro for a pair. Be advised that the Cicognani part number for the 400 series, which I thought would be the same, was completely different than on my car.

    If you refer to the Rubber Trim thread I posted last year you will find pics, etc:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/rubber-trim-sources.547174/

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  24. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day wda,

    Indeed, the mousehair is quite nice... and has the benefit of not being reflective which minimizes any potential blindness from incoming Sunlight :) ... although, in my case, I would actually have to drive the car to verify this... which I have never done.

    Good for you that your leather and interior was in good shape. This will save you a lot of $$$ and effort. As for the various rubber trim pieces, I posted the link to a thread I started last year that may be of interest to you:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/rubber-trim-sources.547174/

    The boot seal is more generic and I believe that Seals Direct (http://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/) in your area of World is as close as a replacement I could find. I will go through my notes to see if I can dig up the part numbers for you. The door seals, etc are quite unique and for these Cicognani is the place... and surprisingly the prices are reasonable.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  25. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Thanks again Sam. Much appreciated.

    New starter arrived today from WOSP, with the correct dimensions!
     
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