26805 Restoration Begins | Page 5 | FerrariChat

26805 Restoration Begins

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by wda24729, Oct 12, 2017.

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  1. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2010
    562
    Sainte Colombe, France (near Lyon)
    Full Name:
    Jean-Michel Savary
    Thanks!
     
  2. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
  3. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
    Should get the gearbox back later today but in anticipation Ive had some hoses made up to replace the existing. I wanted to get rid of those horrible rigid pipes running along the chassis which to me just looked like an after thought. I know not original, but I think an improvement. New hoses will run from cooler to gearbox with breaks at the original positions

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    Whilst I was there I also had a new line made up which runs from the back of the oil filter housing. I think also in the nick of time looking at my original!

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    New Torque Convertor also

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  4. Bill26

    Bill26 Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2005
    255
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Bill Murdoch
    New Torque Convertor also

    View attachment 2479960 [/QUOTE]

    Were you able to source a torque converter with the correct stall speed?

    WM
     
  5. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    They took mine to refurbish. I gave them all the details of the car so hopefully they got it right!
     
  6. Bill26

    Bill26 Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2005
    255
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Bill Murdoch
    I think this issue is worth confirming/checking very carefully.
    If the new converter is a standard type designed for a typical pushrod GM V8, then the stall speed will probably be too low for the V12 (which needs more revs to generate torque). Acceleration from low engine speed will be terribly compromised.

    WM
     
  7. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
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    Graham
    Thanks for pointing that out Bill.

    Just called them and they have confirmed its set up for a V12 Ferrari (actually it says it on the invoice!). They immediately talked about the stall speed, acceleration issues etc.
     
  8. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Gearbox back. Im glad I did take it in as the oil pump was pretty much shot. New one was only £240 so worth doing 'whilst in there'!

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  9. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
    Serious stuff starts now...eeek! Timing cover back on without issue, also managed to get the new chain on without too much faffing!

    Im struggling to get the cam sprocket nuts off though. There are no flats on the cams to allow a spanner to be used.

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  10. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 25, 2009
    28,802
    North Qld
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    simon klein
  11. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
    Well luckily I managed it with a friend holding tight and me on an impact gun! :)
     
  12. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
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    Graham
    Back on it again! Spent most of the day setting the cams and timing up which I reckon is pretty much bang on now. Very interesting setting it up with the twin distributors.

    Forgot to order the sump pan gasket so should get those today and things can start making some proper progress

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  13. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    Looking good! I'm pretty much at the same point right now.

    A new chain will stretch a bit in the beginning so you will have to check timing soon again. Normally you will see that after some time the first camshaft is still quite ok but the last one (on the end of the chain) will be off a bit. Therefor I advanced my first cam 1 degree and the last one 2 degrees so that when the chain stretches it will get more accurate.
    Also I converted it to electronic ignition with 2 triggers in 1 distributor instead of points in both distributors. Now I have only 1 advance mechanism so both banks will advance identical.
    I never understood why they made it the way they made it with 2 advance mechanisms and 1 set of points per distributor.

    Keep up the good work, it's interesting to follow
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  14. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
    Hi Stefan, interesting about advancing the cams. I noticed the trailing cams were slightly retarded from the factory marks when I took the engine apart but I was a little nervous of advancing the cams at this stage as I didn't know the tolerances on the valves.

    I like your distributor set-up. Could you provide a few more details just out of interest?

    Spent most of today getting 1-6 cam covers and ancillaries on. The certainly know how to complicate things on these engines!
     
  15. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
    4,160
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day wda,

    Stefan and Bill recently posted a little about their electronic conversions:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/msd-ignition.561107/#post-145598839

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/msd-ignition.561107/#post-145599756

    I am hoping that either or both would start a thread on this, as it is quite interesting and a worthwhile endeavor for our cars.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  16. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    I would not worry to much about the cams and just leave them how you set them. It's just me being lazy for not willing to lift the camcovers after a couple thousand kilometers to check/redo the timing again. But the fact that you noticed the retarded trailing cam as well shows that when the chain stretches the cam timing indeed changes (which is logical offcourse). To make it more complicated, the bank 1/6 distributor is driven by the first camshaft and the 7/12 distributor is driven by the last camshaft, so ignition timing between the banks also changes when the chain stretches...:-( Bank 7/12 will retard compared to bank 1/6. But with my current setup I will not have an issue with this any more because now they are triggered by the same camshaft.

    Sam, that thread is indeed also about the conversion I did. Maybe it would be a good thing to start a separate thread about it covering these dual distributor setups as used on the carbureted cars and the single distributor with dinoplex setup as used on the 400i including conversions for both systems. If you think that that would be usefull I'll might be able to make some time to start that thread with some info about it as well.

    But the system I made for this 365 is basically the system that alhbln here on ferrarichat developed. It's discussed in depth in this thread
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/bosch-ignition-for-s159-double-distributor-setups.453748/
    It is a Bosch high performance inductive ignition setup that uses 2 bosch ignition modules, 2 low resistance (0,8 Ohm) Bosch ignition coils and 2 Lumenition optronics optical sensors. The optical sensors are triggered by a custom milled aluminum chopper wheel. The optical sensors are placed 150 degrees apart (to get 30 distributor degree interval). So this way it will fire every 60 crankshaft degree.
    Also made a set of good quality suppressed HT-leads and installed NGKBPR6EIX iridium spark plugs.
    It should be a good conversion in a couple ways, first of all it is much more powerfull than the original points system with high resistance coils and ballast resistor. Second thing is that there are no points any more. I have nothing against points systems but the quality of the points now a day is just a matter of luck.
    Third thing is that right now there is just 1 mechanical advance system regulating the advance for both banks. That means that both banks run in sync over the whole rpm range. In the original setup 1 distributor can start advancing while the other is not which makes the engine run less smooth. In this setup the second distributor is just empty and only distributing the spark.
     
  17. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
    Thanks Stefan, seems like a very nice idea and could be worth doing whilst at this sage knowing what a PITA accessing the distributors are when insitu!

    Can I be cheeky and ask how much the system costs?
     
  18. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
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  19. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,451
    North Pole AK
    It's going to run great, good job!
     
  20. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    That is a nice looking engine!

    The cost of the system depends, you can get most of it yourself because it's made out of readily available Bosch parts.
    I can help you with the specific parts you need to convert the distributor but that won't cost you an arm and a leg.
    All together you should be able to make it for well under €1000,-
     
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  21. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
    4,160
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Stefan,

    Thank you for the information! I agree that a separate thread would be a good idea, as this way one can have all the info in one spot and not derail wda's great resto thread.

    Thanks again!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  22. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
    Thanks Chaps, some food for thought there.
     
  23. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
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  24. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
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    Graham
    Well that didn't go so well! I thought I'd move the car back to give me a bit more working area to find the car won't move backwards when in neutral,only forwards.

    Carried out a little research and it sounds like a clutch alignment issue in the gearbox. Looks like that's coming out again! Just glad I noticed it before I installed the engine :(
     
  25. ricar116

    ricar116 Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2005
    409
    Bolivar, Missouri
    Full Name:
    Rick Carr
    You are a good man! Nice work....patience is my nemesis.
     

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