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26805 Restoration Begins

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by wda24729, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Mmckee

    Mmckee Formula 3
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    Sep 30, 2016
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    Mike
    Very nice.
     
  2. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
  3. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day wda24729,

    Excellent, thank you!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  4. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
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  5. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran
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    Patrick
    Apparently yours is vewy, vewy close
     
  6. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
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    Feb 25, 2009
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    I'll believe THAT when Marc actually phones ME!!!
     
  7. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
    963
    Devon, UK
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    Graham
  8. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
    963
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    Graham
  9. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
    963
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    Graham
  10. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
    963
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    Graham
    Inner areas complete, just need to apply the finish to the arch once Ive finished the mouse hole!

    Remembered the flamblock spacers this time! :) Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
  12. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
    963
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    Graham
    So Ive decided the engine is coming out. Ive got an oil leak on both distributor seals which is going to spoil the whole car if not fixed and doing it in the car is not an option. However, after starting I now realise why these cars have such a reputation for being a complete PITA. Took me a good 3 hours just to get the air filter and housing off on the brake servo side. Just to get the filter out the trumpets had to come off and then to get the housing off, the carb studs have to be removed.

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    Also had a bit of a scare after I removed the power steering reservoir bracket. There was water in behind but looking at the parts diagram, I don't think there are any cooling routes in that area, I think it was just trapped water.

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    I wonder who thought of making the alternator belt change so difficult for routine maintenance? :(
     
  13. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day wda24729,

    I will also be removing my engine... primarily to replace anything that is a PITA to do when the engine is in the car... and to properly detail the engine and the engine bay. After chatting with a few other members (Gleggy, Newman) I will also be replacing the exhaust valves as a precautionary measure against the dreaded sodium valve failure risk... My engine has only 15000 KM on it and so it is a shame to open it up with such low KMs...but the risk is not worth taking given that I will have the engine out... and the cost to replace the valves, gaskets, etc is not overly costly. Perhaps it may be something you should consider also.

    As for the air filter box... obviously whoever designed the engine bay, etc never had any experience with engine maintenance or repairs. It is absolutely absurd at how much effort it is to remove the air filter... sadly it was not Ferrari's finest hour when they did this,

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  14. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
    Hi Sam, yes I can see a list of items adding up at present. I did my sodium valves on my 308 but didn't realise these also had them, however Im still on the fence with the sodium argument, its not like I'll be red-lining it every time I use it.

    I think the only way to deal with anything in this engine is to remove it. Im just hoping I can reinstall the engine with the AC compressor installed as Ive been battling with removing that today and as for the power steering pump, well it turns out I need a ring nut tool for the inner nut...grrr!

    It also looks like I need to remove the main steering link which passes along the front of the engine. This should allow more room to bring the engine forward when removing.

    I'm nearly at a point for engine removal, just need the help of a friend to remove the bonnet (hood) so I can then also remove the radiator.
     
  15. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day wda24729,

    It is tough decision to make. Sadly, there has not been a definitive explanation as to why the sodium valves fail. There are a number of hypotheses (age related, thermal gradients, etc) and anecdotal information... but nothing concrete and so this creates uncertainty as to what one should do. In my case I have already made the decision to remove the engine and so replacing the sodium valves at this stage will not be overly expensive (I do my own work and SS valves are relatively inexpensive and gaskets are not too pricey) to include within my project. Thus to me it simply makes sense to do it now and remove the risk entirely. That being said everyone needs to make their own decision as to how best to proceed and what level of risk they are willing to accept.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  16. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
    Knowing the way things have gone on my previous restoration, it will be another scratch I need to itch, so will probably end up doing them!

    Almost ready for engine out. Just one question for you experts. Am I right in thinking the gearbox has to move back to allow the engine to tip upwards and outwards?There seems very little room on the lower cross bar for allowing the engine to move forward.

    Have to say, this is not one of my more enjoyable restorations :(

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  17. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
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    Nov 22, 2013
    422
    Australia
    Yes diff torque tube & transmission need to move back - they are not the easiest to work on. :(

    I am very interest to see more pictures of your radiator fan setup. I was thinking of doing a similar mod with a shroud around the fans. At idle half the air flow comes back out the grill & not through the radiator which means I don't drive it much in summer.

    Cheers,
    Al
     
  18. Bill26

    Bill26 Karting
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    Jun 19, 2005
    192
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    Bill Murdoch
    The engine will come out (and go back in) with the a/c compressor, vacuum pump, alternator, etc. in place. The drag link doesn't cause any problems removing the engine.

    It's a good idea to remove the distributor caps as they get pretty close to the scuttle on the way out.

    The radiator is a 2 man lift.

    You have to take a manual gearbox out with the engine - maybe an auto will come out by itself - I think I have seen a 412 with the engine out and the auto still in place.

    The problem with the valves is a manufacturing problem - the heads (and the collet ends) are friction welded to the stems. the failure occurs at that interface.

    The (final) valve failure is not related to engine speed. I know of a 400 that dropped a valve while idling in the driveway and my 400 dropped a valve during disassembly - running fine when turned off. That engine had no visible wear anywhere but the guides were shot. Yours will probably need guides as well.

    Regards

    WM
     
  19. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Graham
    Thanks chaps.

    Al - I didn't realise it was a modification to the fans but I will take some further photos for you when I out there next

    Bill - Thanks for the info, relieved to hear it will go back in complete. Ive taken one side out of the drag link so that lets me move it more forward. I have plenty of space at the front now to allow the engine to move forward and hopefully make things a little easier during the lift.

    Why didn't they just make a removable cross member? Diff and box adjustments tomorrow then :(
     
  20. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
    963
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    Graham
    Another question, might seem a bit stupid but Ive not dealt with a front engined car before!

    When I release the gearbox from the engine to move it backwards, do I need to have the rear of the engine in the hoist to take the weight and strap the gearbox up to the chassis to support the weight of that? Just thinking about the logistics of doing the two items at the same time!
     
  21. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
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    Nov 22, 2013
    422
    Australia
    That would be great thanks. :)

    I'm not sure how to hold the transmission up. I removed the diff & torque tube then removed the auto.

    I have taken most stuff off the front of the engine but it balances really well on the engine mounts.

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  22. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
    963
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    Graham
    So you just let the engine sit back down on the frame?

    I think I'll get some timber packs in behind the engine whilst I push the gearbox back. I'll probably just sling the gearbox and diff with some strops from the car lift arms.

    Thanks :)
     
  23. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
    963
    Devon, UK
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    Graham
    Im really loosing the will to live on this one. They must have installed the engine and gearbox together at the factory. No one in their right mind would design bolts so difficult to get to in order to release the engine / gearbox at a later stage. Anyway they're all out, just need some friends now for the gearbox shuffle and engine lift :)

    As promised some photos of the fan shrouds. Quite basic really, made from thing aluminium curved around and riveted together.

    The bottom outer fixings use the AC radiator fixings to secure and then there are top and bottom connection in the middle connected through the central vertical splitter. I hope that makes sense.

    Lower outer connection

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    Middle connection. Same at the top in the middle. There is no top outer fixing.

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  24. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
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    Nov 22, 2013
    422
    Australia
    Thanks for the pictures of the fan shrouds. This would greatly improve the fan performance. I need to look at doing something similar so I can drive my car a bit more. :) I think our Central Australian summers get a bit hotter than what these were designed to cope with.
     
  25. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2014
    963
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Finally received my front shocks back yesterday so front suspension all finished., brakes all bled which now work a treat.

    Does anyone know which size socket I need for this ring nut on the power steering pump? Would it be 25mm from Hills Engineering? Anyone got a spare they might not ever use again? :) Looks like someone's had a go at it with a chisel before...not guilty!

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