Does anyone know the S/N of the 250 LM Motorclassics Corp has for sale? Also, does this car have any specific race history. I looked on Barchetta.cc and couldn't find out which car it was. The website listing for the car itself does not disclose which SN it is. Thanks Scott
1964 Ferrari 250LM 6045 http://www.*************/Pics?viewPic=y&source=gal&uID=119513&gID=821&pgID=11&pID=372004&first=true Previous owner is Barney H. Great Car! http://www.pirro.com/english/all.Ferraris/Detail/6045.250LM.htm
After looking at the photos (as tom suggested) I could barely make out Ferrari 250 6045 LM on a cross member of the chassis. Thanks again guys. Scott
Now does the fact that this car has " a replica" made from parts of the original. i.e engine and perhaps fuel tanks (as per barchetta.cc) detract from the value?
I remember this car when it was st Symbolic back in 99. There was a question as to which 6045 was rebuilt of more actual 6045 parts. the car was burned to embers in LA and parts were scattered not sure which car is more real. Wade
The "replica" has the original Engine block and perhaps some body parts. But chassis was completely fabricated in Germany. This car has the original but "repaired" chassis, new body and new "stamped" engine block of 6045/2 from a 275 P
do an advanced search for "6045" in the vintage forum; at least several threads on this car(s). not a good story.
IMO someone should talk to Ferrari and if they agree buy both, give both to Ferrari and have Ferrari rebuilt both into one correct as it can be car with full disclosure.
I totally agree with Jim make one real car, and keep everything clear and above board perhaps keep the other as an accurate replica so you can race it like you stole it.
I agree. I was thinking that if someone had the means they should buy both cars and reuinte the original engine with the original chassis. Then they would have 1 complete original car and one very exact recreation.
Joe M. started a discussion about this over dinner last weekend and it certainly seems like what you have said above would be the ideal situation. We also discussed what happens when two people have significant parts of a vehicle and one person gets theirs to Ferrari first for a factory sanctioned resoration that ends up where Ferrari fabricates parts and certifies that particular car as Sn ABCXYZ. Seems like it is just begging for litigation! Any thoughts?
I cant understand why, for the sake of History and provenance, the original parts are not brought together. Everybody knows both cars, so what is the point of keeping them apart. Surely its better for the future of the car in its most complete state?
The car identified in the beginning of this thread has never been owned or offered ever by Symbolic. The car we had was rebuilt from the chassis, suspension and part of the body that Betz and Peters acquired and later sold to Europe. I raced the car in several Ferrari Challenge Races as well as another LM several years ago before it was sold to back to Italy where I believe it still is. Regards, Bill Noon
Oddly enough, I had lunch 2 days ago (at an event at Carroll Shelby's) with Ron Kellogg, who was reminiscing about cutting the chassis in two so he could transport it. In those days, it wasn't so important. Can also remember when Stu Baumgard had the engine in his 250GTO. Agree they should both get together. Quite a story about Hart Isaacs crashing and how the car came to burn up, but then I suppose it's been told here before. Forgive me for rambling.
So the car at Nick Sopranos Motorclassiccorp is not the same as http://www.ferrari-forsale.com/250LM-1964-ForSale ??
Correct. This is my Summation. From what information I have found (and this may be wrong and open to correction from better informed folks.) The 6045 for sale in NY is made up of the original repaired chassis stamped 6045 LM. The chassis is the majority of what was salvaged from the firey accident in 1969. A completely new body was constructed for the repaired chassis and a donor engine from a 275P (now stamped 6045/2) is in place. The car in california is made up of some discarded cross members and has a fabricated frame and body from a shop in Germany. It also has the original engine from 6045 that was used for a while in a 250 GTO. Realistically, depending on the price of the car in NY. Due to its questionable past I'd hope no more than 2.5 - 3.0M and the car in California at 600K a person could purchase both for 3-3.6 and reunite 6045 chassis with 6045 engine thus having all of 6045, as well as a very exact recreation. (all of which has been stated before in this thread)
2.5-3.0 million sounds very steep for this car. IMHO, both cars are worth far less individually than they are together.
BTW there are MORE than 2 LMs out there that have claimed chassis number 6045. All contructed from various bits and pieces. The real 6045 is no more, no matter how many cars you combine, IMHO. -Jarrett
There was a 250LM that burned on the Merritt Parkway way back when. Could this be one of the donor cars?
6045 burned up due to ruptured tank on Cali. highway somewhere. The motor was sold to a 250 GTO owner, in turn he put the LM motor in his GTO to race with and beat the crap out of. Regarding the burned LM apparently there are a ton of certified documents, which I assume is from Ferrari stating the repair of the chassis, body is original and also the fitting of a new motor stamped 6045/2 the car in fact has that engine number (I've seen, worked & driven this car) The GTO owner subsequently removed the motor (6045) from the GTO (& possibly sold it) so he (or the next owner) attempted to reunite the 6045 motor with the real car for 50% ownership of the repaired LM in the end. For one reason or the next it didn't happen. Maybe out of spite (not getting 50% and all) had a new car built @ Fossil who copied from another real 250LM and installed the 6045 motor in that. From my understanding these are the only two cars with the chassis no. 6045, The Fossil car did show up at auction (RM I think) some time ago and was pulled last minute.....not exactly sure why.... most likely because , "my Ferraris real I swear"
an interesting link regarding 6045. scroll down to the chassis number in question and there's a pretty detailed description on the 6045 LM http://wspr-racing.com/chassis/250LM.htm
