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250 LM at Auction - s/n 6045

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by davebuchner, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    'Proof' of its existence?
     
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  3. Schlesser

    Schlesser Karting

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    #302 Schlesser, Aug 9, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016
    'Proof of its existence' in the states... (and not with the 'seller' at RM's)
     
  4. Schlesser

    Schlesser Karting

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  5. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    But one "assumes" that the radiator, engine block and most of the original suspension has ended up on the "new" 6045, along with other original parts.
    Pete
     
  6. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    497
    Most wonderful car and site, thanks!

    And Michael Shoen is someone who knows what he is talking about: "This was a jewel of a car in that it was beautifully designed and constructed." What a car has gone! It had the original papers, the original engine, the frame’s original rear cross bar with the original 6045 chassis plate as well as all other useable original chassis- and suspension parts left after the fire. This car was certainly ‘more’ original and legitimate than Ferrari’s certified works replica. Classiche stamps and the Certificate are certainly original today. But what else is left period *and* car original? Let’s see and wait now, how 6173 will be ‘fully restored’ soon …
     
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  8. Schlesser

    Schlesser Karting

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    Let's hope that no other certified works replica will be produced...and auction-campaigned again from the experts...
     
  9. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Schlesser, Babci and Lgs,
    You guys do realise you are at odds with the world's foremost LM expert in Marcel.

    #6045 has the chassis from the DK car which was ~90% of the original plus the chassis number tube from Freshman replica. Original engine, etc.

    Sure you guys felt an affinity with the Freshman replica but ... now that #6045 is whole again isn't time to protest somewhere/thing else?
    Pete
     
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  10. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    No profile information filled out for any of the 3.
    Numerous posts that intimate they do understand the stakes in their line of questioning.

    Something is rotten in Denmark.
     
  11. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    497
    Indeed! How can Classiche as a commissioned and high payed restorer provide itself a Certificate?
     
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  13. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    497
    Just a reminder after 6045 got thematised elsewhere again:

    Not 90% but 0%. Why so servile for resurrection phantasies? History is the issue here and not certificates, protest or any experts. Once again: the DK car had a *new* Almec/Cantelli replica frame and 6045 has today a *new* Vaccari chassis built 2012/3. Let’s see 6045’s *unpainted* frame before Classiche’s assembly (and no naïve sketches please!).

    And: Did the car ever reappear in pubic after the sale in the auction (2014!)? Was the deal real?
     
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  14. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    I attended the auction and IMO it was not a real sale. The car may have been sold before or after, but it did not appear to be a genuine sale on the block.
     
  15. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie
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  16. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie
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    250 LM 6045 is a replica? Seriously?
     
  17. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    I sent you a PM/Conversation
     
  18. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie
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    Got it. Thanks.
     
  19. Schlesser

    Schlesser Karting

    Feb 12, 2013
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    Seriously. Of course there are always some romantic ignorants of faked dreams as ‚0846’ proved. But history is different and 6045 produced in 1964 is no more.

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  20. Rossocorsa1

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  21. Schlesser

    Schlesser Karting

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  22. Terra

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  23. Rossocorsa1

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    I get that 6045 has been through a lot in its lifetime, but correct me if I'm wrong - does the fact that a car with Ferrari Classiche blessing itself not lend a certain degree (or all) the credibility that's needed? I know many like to freak out about the legitimacy of Ferrari Classiche, but like it or not, it carries a ton of weight. Seemingly, all the wight 6045 needed. I fully appreciate that some have an issue with the original and historical "ingredients" of this car but the official stamp of approval from Ferrari is what matters to the vast majority of the collectors world. Further, it would seem that the RM Sotheby's auction results validate this, as well as it's awards at the Cavallino Classic. If I owned that car, I'd be pretty proud of it.
     
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  24. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie
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    "does the fact that a car with Ferrari Classiche blessing itself not lend a certain degree (or all) the credibility that's needed?"
    No, it doesn't. Classiche has shot itself in the foot so many times that no potential buyer who actually cares about having/understanding the correct history should accept a Classiche certification on its face, especially w/ a vintage comp Ferrari. What "matters" to the collector world and what is factually correct don't necessarily coincide.
     
  25. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie
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    You may be right, maybe you’re not. There seems to be a vibrant debate about the car that will likely not end anytime soon. But, what is indisputable is that the car sold for $11.55mm in 2014. That’s a pretty amazing price tag for a 250 LM kit car. Truer still is that it would very likely go for much more today. Not bad for a factory validated hoax. By no means am I an expert, but everyone knows that cars from that era all have major elements that aren’t original and many that are questionable. My guess is that the car is pretty much what the price reflects and that a certain group will never be satisfied.
     
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  26. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    497
    #324 lgs, Jul 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    Body and frame are products of 2013 and not 1964. The car is a works replica with a genuine Red Book Certificate containing a faked production date. Superb creation you can be proud of but a fatal impact on LM-heritage supported from naïve claquers with the difference to ‘0846’, that all this is officially backed from Classiche upon commercial reasons. Certificates, reports and sales stories more estimated then history? This is hardly a wise way to save LM-history.
     
  27. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    497
    Nonsense. Can you confirm such a price and that the deal was real? See also here: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/145444395/
     

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