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250 GTO selling price thread (DUE TO REQUESTS)

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by bannishg, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. odgemeister

    odgemeister Karting

    Feb 5, 2012
    55
    As an interested, but certainly not involved, spectator, I can't see the prices for 250GTOs receding at any stage. It is only up from here in my opinion.

    The reason - imo - is that it is unlikely many collectors will need a quick sale on a GTO and if they did there will probably always be more than one person interested in buying one.

    There are only 36/39 models, no more are being built and if you do sell it, what do you buy? There is not really anything else which has the desirability as the 250 GTO.

    Would love to know when a model sells for $50 million. I've heard there have been a few private, confidential deals of high-end Ferraris recently so wonder if this figure has been realised.
     
  2. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    Greg
    #77 bannishg, May 1, 2013
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
    Imagine if someday the GTO exceeds the Mona Lisa in value.... (current valuation is about $800,000,000 US). At that point the phrase "GTO market" would be a moot concept. Nobody would dare race their car at that point, or even display them publicly. All buyers would want to remain anonymous, nobody would want to be known to have spent nearly a billion on an automobile, every new GTO sale would make headlines worldwide.

    Silly scenario, I know. My point is that there is a ceiling. I don't know what it is yet, but they won't appreciate to infinity. It is however a really really sweet ride, so sweet that there will always be plenty of people willing to pay more than whatever the last person paid.

    But what if there is more to owning this particular car? What if the very same keys that start that brilliantly designed 3 liter V-12 also unlock some mystical truth that has been the very pursuit of mankind since its conception? What if they allow access to some ethereal utopian dimension or guaranteed escape from an inversive realm of punishment? Perhaps ownership of this special machine makes one a demigod and grants eternal life! Those who had ownership and yet still perish had the car modified or altered in such a way that nullifies the nature of its divinity. The car has no creature comforts, no air conditioning and certainly not the convenience of an automatic transmission. Such frivolities are considered obscene, even blasphemy!

    If anything in that last paragraph is true, why are GTO's still so damn cheap?!!!
     
  3. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
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    Greg
    #78 bannishg, May 1, 2013
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
    Don't have a revised list of exact prices paid ready at this time, but have a better idea of what prices were at certain points in time, based on buying and selling prices. All are at the very least acknowledged by a minimum of 1 reliable outside source. Note how radically prices fluctuate between and even within certain years, all USD. More than enough to illustrate the car's superiority as an investment despite it's occasional declines:

    Ironically, the data is the most ambiguous on the recent sales, then again, maybe that's not so ironic.

    As with all of my lists, do not use this as a reference, this is merely for entertainment. If you apply this information and get burned because it subsequently proves false, I claim no responsibility. Also, this post is not so much meant for people doing serious research but more for those who have a general affinity for the car and may be shocked to see what the car was worth when Led Zeppelin first got big.

    NEW: around $18,500 (though many people offering them in the early days claim that the car cost them over $25,000 new ?)
    1964: $12,000
    1965, early: $10,500
    1966, summer: $7,500
    1967, fall: $6,500
    1968, late spring: $5,500
    1968, fall: $6,500
    1969, summer: $7,900
    1970, very early: $8,500
    1970, summer: $9,800
    1970, very late: $7,700
    1971, winter: $9,500
    1971, summer: $12,000
    1971, fall: $8,500
    1972, early: $c.14,000 (5500 PDS)
    1972, summer: $9,900 (allegedly a '64 model in need of cosmetics was being offered around that June for "under 10k" according to Motor Trend, 8/72)
    1973, summer: $c.17,500 (7200 PDS)
    1974, spring: $25,000
    1974, summer: $30,000
    1974, very late into very early 1975: $40,000
    1975, late: $48,000
    1976, late winter: $50,000
    1977, early: $60,000
    1978, early: $80,000
    1978, summer: $99,000 (as the story goes the seller wanted $100k firm, but accepted $99k due to the interested parties aversion to paying 6 figures)
    1978, late: $125,000
    1979: No Data
    1980, early: "just below $200,000"
    1981, summer: $285,000
    1982, mid: $345,000
    1983, early: $300,000
    1984, spring: $425,000 (this is from an autoweek article in Feb 85. The buyer had offered another owner $550k prior to this purchase, and it was declined!)
    1984, some time: $275,000 (Nds Rsto.)
    1985, late winter: $650,000
    1985, fall: $750,000
    1986, early: $800,000
    1986, mid/late: $1,000,000 (The Kotan car breaks the barrier and all hell breaks loose!)
    1987, spring: $1,450,000
    1987, fall: $1,590,000
    1988, early summer: brokers have trouble securing GTO's for clients even at $3,000,000
    1988, summer: $4,200,000
    1989, summer: $9,800,000
    1989, late: $12,000,000
    1990, early: $13,500,000 (the peak of the first frenzy)
    1990, summer: $9,500,000 (this was the sketchy sale)
    1991, mid: $6,900,000
    1991, late: $5,500,000
    1992, near the end: $3,500,000
    1993, spring: $3,000,000
    1994, late summer: $2,700,000
    1995: NO DATA
    1996, spring: $2,500,000 (bought by a dealer and is the lowest known price post-bubble)
    1996, fall: $3,200,000
    1997, late summer: "under $4M" (said to be $3,750,000)
    1998, early: $4,500,000 ($4,000,000 according to some)
    1998, late: $5,500,000
    1999, early: $5,000,000
    2000, very early: $6,500,000
    2000, late: $8,000,000
    2001: NO DATA
    2002: "in the vicinity of" $9,000,000
    2003: Not confirmed, but supposedly another at $9,000,000
    2004, late: $10,600,000
    2006, early: $14 to $15,000,000
    2007, forgot when: $18,000,000 to $19,000,000
    2008, early: $22,000,000
    2008, around election time: $25,000,000
    2009, early: one sketchy ad on mobile.de, $24,000,000 but this shouldn't really count
    2009, forgot when: another went for around $25,000,000
    2010, forgot when: $26,000,000
    2011, summer: around $32,000,000
    2011, late: $36,000,000
    2012, fall: $35,000,000
    Recently: at least 2 rumored exchanges at over $40,000,000 and one that some say was as high as $50,000,000.

    Mike Sheehan authored many articles on price trends, and closed one of them with "so, how did your 401(k) perform lately?"

    ....mine didn't do quite as well as the car......
     
  4. mylesofsmyles

    mylesofsmyles Rookie

    Aug 28, 2004
    21
    Marin County, CA
    How many of these are even left???
     
  5. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    Greg
    All 39 of them, one recently had a nasty crash but it's being rebuilt.
     
  6. mylesofsmyles

    mylesofsmyles Rookie

    Aug 28, 2004
    21
    Marin County, CA
    I happen to know of one, very close by, that's currently being reassembled. It'll be a 100-points car when complete. I wonder if that's it. It's a unique shade of dark blue, I've never seen on a GTO before.


    Amazing, after all this time, every car is still alive. Though, that's certainly just a reflection of the owners' $$$ to afford to resurrect them after even the worst of accidents.

    Wow!!!
     
  7. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
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    Greg
    #82 bannishg, May 1, 2013
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
    Well the cost to repair the car is sure to be vastly below its value.

    Where do you live and are you sure it's the real deal? If you are outside the USA, bear in mind that only around 6 or 7 (?) other countries contain GTO owners, and off the top of my head a few certain continents; South America, Africa, Antarctica (duh) and at this point in time Australia, are written-off right off the bat. Also pretty much all of continental Asia except for Hong Kong. There is a pretty accurate registry of current and past ownerships at barchetta.cc., and 99% mention the car's current location. If you give us the name of the business that is undertaking this enterprise, someone may be able to determine which car it is.

    That color scheme isn't ringing any bells at the top of my head, either, at least if were talking about one in the process of resto...
     
  8. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
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    Very interesting! I thought it was much earlier (mid'90's) it started peaking above 10 milj. That it increased so fast is new to me.

    Ciao
    Oscar
     
  9. mylesofsmyles

    mylesofsmyles Rookie

    Aug 28, 2004
    21
    Marin County, CA
    Considering the annonimity y'all like to maintain with dealing in multi million dollar Ferrari's, I'll just say its near San Francisco and there is zero question about its authenticity.
     
  10. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    Greg
    Noted! ;)

    That's good enough for me, just wanted to squeeze out a few more details.
     
  11. mylesofsmyles

    mylesofsmyles Rookie

    Aug 28, 2004
    21
    Marin County, CA
    #86 mylesofsmyles, May 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  12. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
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    Greg
    T'aint no GTO, man'g! Get outta dodge!
     
  13. mylesofsmyles

    mylesofsmyles Rookie

    Aug 28, 2004
    21
    Marin County, CA
    #88 mylesofsmyles, May 1, 2013
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
    You're funny!

    Or maybe I need to put down these Cali budzzz


    Come to think of it, it could have been a 275 GTB. I just got sooooo excited when I saw those slats behind the door glass
     
  14. mylesofsmyles

    mylesofsmyles Rookie

    Aug 28, 2004
    21
    Marin County, CA
    No kidding. Don't know how I confused the two


    I hope I haven't tussled Enzo's feathers, in his eternal slumber.

    My appogies. Still a real deal restoration in my backyard
     
  15. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    Springfield area, MA
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    Greg
    #90 bannishg, May 1, 2013
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
    C'mon guy,

    We ain't asking for too much, just a world where people who want to have meaningful exchanges can do so without troll interjections. What's it all about? You're near Frisco anyway, always plenty of room for another troll under the golden gate bridge

    But I do think your funny, and in fact, you even had me laughing a little. I like that, but again, trolling is trolling is trolling and will never be anything other than trolling.
    .
    Plus you can say whatever you want about Enzo, no effect on me, some people here may view him as a deity but I certainly don't.

    "Have you no sense of decency?" - Atty Joseph Welch to Sen. Joe McCarthy, 6/9/54
     
  16. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    Greg
    There was this one GTO, can't dig up the S/N right now, that got a lot of hype in 2000. Everybody was saying that it would go for $10mil. Not only did it fail to reach $10m, it didn't even meet reserve, whatever it was.
     
  17. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    #4293, the GTO that came 2nd at Le Mans, perhaps the most desirable. It did change hands shortly after for an amount much much higher than big at Bonhams Gstaad. I gues it shows that the big $$ come out in private. Although after Gooding sold 250TR #0666 and the impending sale of the Mercedes GP car @ Bonhams Goodwood maybe people arent so secetive about spending their $$$$
     
  18. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    Greg
    The Mercedes was a W125 correct?
     
  19. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dave Powers
    38 or 37 (4561 SA). Certainly not 39: as threads here have settled for some years now.
    Best, Dave
     
  20. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    Greg
    I was including 4561 into the figure but definitely don't want to resurrect a score long since settled. I'll adopt "37 or 38".

    Greg
     
  21. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Jun 19, 2012
    1,232
    Just one more time for the record:

    250 GTO-- 36 cars

    330 LM with GTO bodywork-- 2 cars

    330 LM with LM bodywork-- 4 cars
     
  22. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    W196, I believe chassis #0006/54

    Fangio won two races in it. Then

    Mercedes Benz collection
    National Motor Museum, UK
    Bamford ?
    Setton, France
    Loh, Germany
    Saudi Arabia/ Qatar ?
    Bonhams
    ??

    And noted that it says in the auction publicity if not sold sonner..... so may not get to goodwood
     
  23. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    Springfield area, MA
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    Greg
    #98 bannishg, May 2, 2013
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
    I can vouch for Bamford's ownership, according to either an article in T&CC or CAS (dtd 09/1987). He purchased it some time early that year for a record 1MIL pds (about $1,600,000 US which was GTO money then). I know about 8 years ago a W125 sold privately for 10 million PDS, yet its valuation in the mid 50s was about 1,250 PDS! (even when you consider that the ex rt then was 0.36 PDS per $1, just wow!) But a T23 or T30 Bugatti could be bought for less than 100 PDS in 1955, so I can see how that would've been a logical value for an obsolete, but important race car then.

    Nick Mason was rumored to be interested in the W125, but was said to have laughed at the prospect of paying that kind of money. I'd believe that, allegedly he was also ashamed about paying PDS-37000 for his GTO in 78, thinking at first that it would've only cost him something in the 20000's.

    Analysts have this car (W196) at 10 to 12 mil PDS for an estimate. It would certainly have to be well above the high estimate in order for it to sell privately beforehand. That's about half a GTO price, personally I think the values should be the other way around, this car is much much rarer and has a history that's just as important. Then again, they change hands so seldom that you can't really attribute a market all its own.
     
  24. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
    1,921
    similarly based only on rarety, the 330 GTO of which there are 2 and the 330 LMB which there are 4, should be bargains in today's market when compared to pricing of the 250 GTO... plus the extra power of the 330 engine would give a better kick in the seat of the pants increasing the fun factor
     
  25. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    Greg
    Yeah, I think Talacrest had an LMB listed at "only" $9mil back in 2011.

    There is also the 250 LM: about 85% the population of the GTO with performance just as impressive. Then again not acknowledged by the FIA until 1966, so racing prowess is impoverished in comparison to the GTO.
     

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