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250 GTO selling price thread (DUE TO REQUESTS)

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by bannishg, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. George J.

    George J. Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2005
    535
    Bay area, CA
    Full Name:
    George J
    Seems to me when I was around ten in the mid-sixties Bev Spencer had 5571 for sale and I think the price was around $12-14k. A bit later than George Dyer bought 4219 for $12k (as an aside George turned down around $14m in '89, didn't listen when I urged him that the time had come). I worked my dad pretty hard to go for it however in the end he pulled the trigger on a 330 GT 2+2 (family car). That one lasted less then a year and was replaced by a more suitable Calif Spider (bought for $6k and sold a couple years later, also for $6k). Had he bought it I am certain it would have hung around no longer than the 2+2. GJ
     
  2. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #52 bannishg, Mar 23, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
    It couldn't be any more right. I've talked with some ex-GTO owners and would've been-GTO owners online about how and why they decided to (or not to) make their move(s).

    Those who bought or sold their car in the "heyday" (obviously 60s - early 70s) were lucky not only in the sense that the prices were very low, but also in the sense that the cars were far from being regarded as blue-chip heavily traded super investments. This meant that any prospective buyers never had to worry about paying a premium for their GTO. When you hear about those $8000, $6000, and yes, even $3200 sales, they were from desperate sellers in need of disposing of an impractical race car which they no longer can afford to keep on the road. You could've stopped at the bank, withdrew a four-figure sum of money and end the day tearing up the streets in your new race car. Unfortunately, you surely had no radio, so forget about blasting "Aqualung" or "Won't Get Fooled Again" or any other such songs of the time. It would be obscured by the loud engine, anyway. Unlike today, a GTO was not a skeleton key that could grant you access to virtually any car event on the planet. There were no sportscar events in which to show it off. The car scene was dominated by $30-50k Duesenbergs, Packards, Bugattis etc. which, ironically enough, were all under $2000 in the early 50s. I reading a vintage newspaper article from 1971 covering a man who turned down $65,000 for a Duesenberg, as well as the uproar it generated, how it was an obscenely huge amount of money, and that the owner was beyond foolish for turning it down. You could've seen a GTO on the road 38 years ago and thought: "Oh, a Ferrari, that's neat........." where today it's: " HOLY S***!!! AM I SEEING THINGS?!? THAT'S A FREAKING GTO!!!! WHY THE HELL IS IT OUT OF IT'S SAFE?!?"

    Hard to say when the GTO's became collectible, I've heard that it was sort of an "all-of-a-sudden" kind of thing.

    I've got a vague idea, half-based on actual sales and half-based on highly logical, mathematically inclined guessing, about where the market was for the rest of the decade:

    1973: $12,000 - $20,000
    1974: $18,000 - $30,000
    1975: $22,000 - $40,000
    1976: $35,000 - $50,000
    1977: $48,000 - $65,000
    1978: $65,000 - $100,000
    1979: $90,000 - $175,000

    Is this at least somewhat along the lines?

    Greg B
     
  3. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Oct 16, 2007
    4,896
    Edwardsville, IL
    Full Name:
    Jeff Kennedy
    I want to add a few personal opinion points on the perspective "in the day".

    Steve Earle used to show up regularly at the Ferrari Owners Club (FOC) gatherings in Southern California with his GTO. At the time these were being held at Riverside, Ontario Motor Speedway and Willow Springs. There sometimes were gatherings with some other clubs where the Ferrari crowd would be welcome. This was all before Steve started his Laguna Seca historics. The FOC for a period of time was holding their track events every month or so. In addition there were some other clubs that would let the F-car crowd attend.

    I would propose that the start of Steve's Laguna Seca event may be a significant contributing factor to the rise of the desirability of the old race cars. Monterrey started a wave of other historic venues that all gave real opportunity to use the cars. this also exposed these same cars to more people with the means to "play".

    By the later part of the 70s there had become quiet speculation that Enzo's age was working against his longevity. These whispers were already starting to say that there would be an inevitable price jump when that fateful day came.

    In the late 70s and until the early 80s the stock market was in lousy shape. Some had the opinion that hard assets were the items to have. This could have been a contributing factor too. The big bull market did not start until somewhere in the 1982/83 range.

    Was any one item the cause of the rapid valuation change or was it a confluence of events that came together independently? Cavallino magazine started publishing in 1978. A proliferation of specialized Ferrari books like Joel Finn's V12 Testa Rossa, Jess Pourett's 250 GT, George Carrick's California Sypder all came out. All of this brought more attention to the older cars and increased their level of interest to a larger audience.

    Jeff
     
  4. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    Very good points. The US inflation rate also had a significant impact on the pricing of hard assets, and their desirability, during the 70s and early 80s.

    And cars made during that period were ghastly, strangled and bloated by early versions of smog controls and safety features. With few exceptions, I kept and drove 60s cars into the 90s.

    Enzo's passing also had a significant impact. In December '88 I sold my 330 GT for more than three times what I'd paid for it four years earlier.
     
  5. Julio Batista

    Julio Batista Formula 3

    Dec 22, 2005
    2,397
    Alternatively:

    You could've seen a GTO on the road 38 years ago and thought: "Oh, a Ferrari, that's neat........." where today it's: "Look, there goes yet another fake GTO"
     
  6. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    So true, so true..... What's even more ironic is the price of some of these replicas, not the kit cars, but those based of of the GTE's and 330GT's. I've heard of one selling for $700k. That right there is a restored 275GTB short-nose.
     
  7. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #57 bannishg, Mar 24, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #58 bannishg, Mar 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #59 bannishg, Mar 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. JimMigliaccio

    JimMigliaccio Karting

    Oct 1, 2008
    54
    #60 JimMigliaccio, Mar 27, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
    #5575 was owned for quite some time By Robert Donner II of Colorado Springs. I BELIEVE he paid $8500 for it around 1967... He & his sadly deceased son Bobby III drove it regularly in various vintage events including Monterey for many years. Shortly after Mr. Sheehan completed his sale of 3909 to Mr. Kato for $13.8M, as it was known I grew up 2 houses away from the Donners, I had a client commission me to go as high as $20M for 5575 but at the time Mr. Donner had no interest in parting with the car - as I recall, his answer was something like "20 million is only a ledger entry - I have the last GTO". Subsequent to III's tragic death at the Telluride hillclimb in a Wells Coyote I understand that Mr. Donner lost interest in racing & sold the car to Mr. Hank for +- $4.5M but have no supporting documentation. Please don't flame me if my dates or $'s are off as this all happened a LONG time ago. Yr fthfl svt, Jim
     
  11. targanero

    targanero Formula 3

    May 31, 2005
    1,647
    New York
    Full Name:
    Simon
    You are an astute businessman.
     
  12. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    Kind of you to say so, but in the current political climate I'm sure it would be more widely seen as greedy exploitation of a sad event. Let's say no more about it.
     
  13. targanero

    targanero Formula 3

    May 31, 2005
    1,647
    New York
    Full Name:
    Simon
    I think Enzo would approve.
    Relax.
     
  14. taunus

    taunus Formula Junior

    Jan 24, 2002
    773
    Germany, Osnabrueck
    Full Name:
    Ansgar
    That's not the question... ;)

    Just wondering because mobile.de isn't a ordinary place to offer such a car....
     
  15. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Most people would think that ANY public advertisement of a GTO would be strange, especially one with an asking price. These are almost always traded privately.
     
  16. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,186
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Strange times.
     
  17. fisch16

    fisch16 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2011
    3
    #69 fisch16, Jan 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Relative to this sale, the year can not be 1972 because Mr. Kortan already had the car as early as Oct. 1971. See attachment




    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #70 bannishg, Apr 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Wow, just noticed this post like 3 months later. Thanks for that!

    Barchetta.cc still states that the car went to Kortan in 1972 (no month stated), but yes, you are correct. The auction was actually in 71, not 72, and took place in March, not May. It was then confirmed by the attached listing from an Autoweek in Feb. 71. The high bid of $6k that took the car may have been closer to $10k had they actually mentioned that it was a "GTO", but there's no use playing out alternative scenarios on a transaction that occured 42 years ago...

    I also have acquired much more data in regards to past GTO sales, but if I am to post some of it, I'll post it in my most recent thread.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    On second thought I'll post it here. Updated list coming soon.
     
  20. mylesofsmyles

    mylesofsmyles Rookie

    Aug 28, 2004
    21
    Marin County, CA
    Not in my pockets! But that's a "bargain" compared to the one that sold at auction at $35million and the other at $41million.
     
  21. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #73 bannishg, May 1, 2013
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
    That was 4 years ago. Whoever just paid 35 mil should be arrested because THAT is the very definition of stealing. 24mil today would be like the seller offering the buyer money to take the car off of his/her hands.
     
  22. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

    Jan 14, 2007
    11,854
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Onno
    $24 mil today would be an insult to a GTO owner. $35 million is not even top dollar anymore, there are several GTO's that would be worth more (if they were for sale).

    An offer of €300.000 for my 330GTC last October would have been good. If you offered it today, I would politely ask you to go away and not waste my time like that. That is the way the market is at the moment.


    Onno
     
  23. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    888
    But there is no bubble, for sure...
     

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