250 GTO Continuation Series

under the new rules possibly in the USA ... but they would need a certified engine and someone else to build it ... just like ford got someone else to built the 05-06 FORD GT.

 

Indeed, that was the way I read it. I was merely pointing out the possible consequences of Ferrari following Jaguar's example. We're on the same page.

 

I, too.

No, but I am not . . .

 

250 GTO's used odd-number (production car) serial numbers rather than even-number race serial numbers. My guess is that Ferrari didn't leave any "holes" in the production serial number sequence, so hopefully that means are no serial numbers available for them to leverage the "unbuilt car" loophole.

 

http://autoweek.com/article/classic-cars/jaguar-classic-d-type-debuts-retromobile-paris


XKSS + D

 

What about the other 61 that they would have told the FIA they had built in order to homologate the car?

 

I don't know. It seems a little late to do that now. If they didn't reserve serial numbers for them in period, it seems like it would be difficult to make the case now that they ever had any genuine intent to build them back then.

 

IIRC the 250 GTO was homologated as a development of the 250 GT SWB using amendments/extensions in submitted paperwork to the FIA to the 250 GT SWB specifications such as the 5 speed gearbox, dry sump and 6 double choke Weber carburettors. Also after 100 cars were built a body style change was allowed so as more than 100 250 GT SWBs had been built Ferrari was able to justify the GTO that way. I think.

 

I was asking Solofast in what cars Jaguar are using old Pre Emission engines as he said they are doing. The XKSS (9), D Type (25) and Lightweight E Type (6) continuation cars use new engines.

The Lightweight E Type engine with its aluminium cylinder block is extremely rare.

 

Yes, now you mention it I believe you are right.

 

Shelby got into trouble in 1993 when he was alive trying to make a continuation run of 43 cars that he had S/N's for, but no chassis. Here is a link to an LA Times article from 1993...

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-04-15/news/vw-23029_1_carroll-Shelby

Since those cars didn't conform to safety or emissions regs they ran into legal problems even though they were using rebuilt old motors. The new continuation cars are sold without an engine or transmission as a "kit" car and drive through that loophole. You then have a "finishing center" that is not the manufacturer install the engine and transmission of your choice. Shelby works closely with your installer to insure that the engine and plumbing is all set up and it's a drop in job.

The problem with Ferrari making the whole thing is that you end up with a car that cannot be titled, licensed and driven on the street. That doesn't bother very wealthy folks who want one to do vintage racing or track days, but that is a much smaller group of people than those who might want one but don't have an interest in racing or track days. There are exemptions for cars older than 25 years, and other exemptions for vehicles used for "Shows and Display". If you got an import for show and display you still have to get an EPA wavier to operate the car on the street if it is not emissions compliant (which a 250 motor with 6 Weber cars surely will never be emissions compliant). Since the penalty for not observing the restrictions on the Show and Display waiver are that the vehicle can be seized by the government you have to keep logs and cannot sell the vehicle there is a heavy burden on importing a car for show and display purposes. Here is a link to the form you need to fill out to import a car for show and display. https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/appsd_permissionjuly2014_r.v.2.pdf If you read the restrictions on the lower half of the form you'll realize that this is a burden that most buyers would not want. And at some point, if they make a good number of these the basis for the waiver (rarity) goes away, so there will only be a relatively small number of those waivers granted.

I doubt that Ferrari would want to be selling cars less motors and having some unaffiliated shop install engines and transmissions just to get around the regulations. Ferrari doesn't just sell 250 motors to just anyone who walks in the door, which they would have to do to get this thru the kit loophole. And since it would have left the factory without an engine there could never be "matching numbers"..

One of the reasons that people invested heavily in old cars is that they realized that as Will Rogers said about land "they ain't making that any more" and that since the supply would be forever limited, the price had to go up.

You kinda have to face it that the safety and greenie Nazi's rule. If you bought one and kept it for 25 years overseas, then you might be able to import it, but by then most folks who would want it would be long gone.

 

It seems you can't turn back time so to speak even if some people would still like to. Thank you for all those details and the links; very interesting!

 

This Jaguar XKSS Continuation car is UK road registered and has a new original specification engine.

 

A bit disappointing to hear that they had to cut an original XKSS engine in half to reverse engineer it. Now admittedly, when we owned an early 70's XJ6, there were times when I felt that nothing would have made me happier than to saw that engine in half -- but we didn't actually go through with it -- and it wasn't an XKSS.

As an aside, it always amazed me that Jag e-types, and even this XKSS, have a redline that is under 6,000 RPM.

 

Do you really think they sawed an original D Type engine in half????

 

Due, I imagine, to the long stroke and therefore high piston speed per rpm.

 

I cannot understand why they should have needed to do so. It's an XK engine, for God's sake. At worst, they might have had to take one completely to pieces and put it back together again to check which parts are non-standard.

 

If they got a 1957 spec 2017 Jaguar XKSS UK road registered then why not a 1962 spec 2018/19 Ferrari 250 GTO?

 

The XKSS which is registered as Jaguar Unkown must be registered as a 2017 car as it would not have got a 17 plate otherwise. Strange no date for when MOT is due which would be 3 years from date of registration of a new car.


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I don't know, but maybe for whatever reason the new D-types are track only (original ones were road registered because they were often driven to the races).

 

I believe that sole example was registered as a test mule, in order to get around the regs, the same as they do with current prototypes for road testing and evaluation, hence no model type. It wont be part of the production run and will be kept by Jaguar.

With regards sawing an engine in half! in the Jay Leno vid on these cars, the Jag head guy stated they found a new old stock block at a London dealer, so I am guessing that may have been sectioned to work out the dimensions to make a new mould.

 

Hmm. I love the XKSS. One of the most beautiful cars of all time imho. But a racing car converted for road use that you can't use on the road doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Of course only the original 16 XKSS cars are converted D Types for road use with the 9 Continuation cars being built by Jaguar from scratch as XKSS.

 

The XKSS Continuation got MOT'd with a valid certificate for 1 year on 9th July, 2020.

View attachment 3094996

 

The XKSS Continuation that Richard Hammond tested in the Amazon Prime Video got MOT'd with a valid certificate for 1 year on 9th July, 2020.
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