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250 GTO at no reserve at Quail - BONHAMS

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Onebugatti, Jun 30, 2014.

?

what will 250 GTO #3851 auction for at Bonhams' August 15?

  1. <= $20mm

  2. $25mm

  3. $30mm

  4. $35mm

  5. $40mm

  6. $45mm

  7. $50mm

  8. $55mm

  9. $60mm

  10. $65mm

  11. $70mm

  12. $75mm

  13. => $80mm

  14. no idea

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  1. richardson michael

    Aug 17, 2013
    239
    brittany. france
    Full Name:
    michael richardson
    You are right Doug,problem with the owners of such cars at the time was they were not always particularly skilled drivers.As all 250GTO have a history,and it now seems there are twice as many out there than originally came out of the factory,this could be a great moment for you to produce a definitive guide. ...a bible if you like,just like Mathias has done with the Dino
     
  2. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
    Moderator

    May 15, 2003
    4,122
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Boudewijn Berkhoff
    Twice as much? If you are calling all replicas a GTO there will be many more. I think all original GTO's, because of the importance of this car tipo since many decades, and with the help of early writers like Jess Pourret and Ferrari archeologists like Marcel Massini, are well accounted for regarding the individual histories.
     
  3. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,193
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    I doubt that any accident damage repaired by the factory in period will effect value.
    We're talking about a rather rare and iconic racing car here. It's not like someone is going to have a bunch of GTOs to choose between.
     
  4. Doug Nye

    Doug Nye Karting
    Honorary

    Jan 21, 2008
    203
    Indeed - on all counts. I always find it faintly depressing when such a racing icon sparks more speculation about value, and the probity of those presently responsible for its welfare, than about its background, its provenance and its story. So thanks for the historical contributions here - genuinely, much appreciated.

    Otherwise - aah well - different strokes, for different folks...

    DCN
     
  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,484
    Guys, relax, please!
    Like most other GTOs 3851 GT was raced extensively and had a number of crashes. It is a pure competition car, NOT built for the ramp in Pebble Beach. I remember very well that Fabrizio Violati raced it equally hard in vintage racing in the 70s and 80s. For him it was just a tool to win.

    Marcel Massini
     
  6. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,193
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    In one way its safer to race a GTO. They're so valuable and already have so many repairs that no accident would total the car. Or even diminish its value.
     
  7. tilomagnet

    tilomagnet Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    297
    As the Black Knight would say: "...tis just a scratch.." :)


    Its quite amazing that the Coppo crash didnt result in another fatality....thats some nasty damage to the roof.
     
  8. tilomagnet

    tilomagnet Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    297
    Sorry but thats just wishful thinking....this one was rebuild in period when they still came new from the factory so all is safe in that respect. But if one crashes a GTO really badly next week that it needs a new body and chassis you can bet that one would never reach numbers anywhere close to a relatively well preserved example. Difference between top tier and stories cars.
     
  9. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,193
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    They're all stories cars at this point. Some of the stories are just newer than others.
    A recently rebuilt car might, in theory, be worth less but it's not like you have your pick of several at any given time.
    I'm just speculating though and defer to those more involved with reality.
     
  10. Doug Nye

    Doug Nye Karting
    Honorary

    Jan 21, 2008
    203
    Absolutely right - a warrior wielding a weapon of war. That is precisely what competition Ferraris were for. Even gentleman racers in period could cover much of their costs with start, prize and bonus monies IF the owner/drivers were capable and IF they didn't crash too often.

    Mechanically the GTOs were so reliable they were regarded at the time as being almost bulletproof, which alone justified their price tag as new.

    DCN
     
  11. runflat

    runflat Rookie

    Apr 4, 2007
    6
    Toluca Lake, CA
    Full Name:
    Rick Cole
    She looks a little tidier than when she sat at Maranello...seems she's had a few days at the beauty shop
     
  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,484
    Hey Rick, nothing wrong with that. Girls go to the beauty shop all the time.

    ATB
    Marcel Massini
     
  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    72,986
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Welcome to Rick Cole!

    Thanks for checking in..

    Care to weigh in on the house being the seller and being the owner and all the rest of that?? I guess it's not exactly uncommon in the industry?
     
  14. mcg

    mcg Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 26, 2004
    283
    Full Name:
    Andy
    Tom Barrett often had his cars in his auction.
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    72,986
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Agreed, did not mean to derail this discussion, great period racing photos!

    Thanks to all....
     
  16. BRDC

    BRDC Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2012
    380
    The car was subsequently owned by the same guy for nearly 50 years who drove it a lot and died of old age.

    I don't think this will factor into the equation. This is not James Dean's 550 Spyder.

    It'll sell for what a comparable GTO that was raced hard and bashed and crashed in period will sell for... and there are plenty like it within the group.
     
  17. BRDC

    BRDC Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2012
    380
    So long as the GTO you're bending isn't 4293, that is. That would be tragic.
     
  18. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

    Nov 12, 2003
    5,181
    Austria
    Full Name:
    Michael Platzer
    and the good thing is that a Ferrari always leaves the beauty shop looking better than before, even when 60+ years old.
    that does not always work with our beloved girls ...
     
  19. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2012
    966
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Le Monde Edmond
    An interesting observation. ;)
     
  20. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 30, 2006
    1,710
    europe
    Full Name:
    oscar
    beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

    personally I don't like over restored cars let alone over restored women....

    ciao
    Oscar
     
  21. PBE624

    PBE624 Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2005
    302
    De Panne Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Hi all,

    my guess on this sale, it's all about marketing. Who will be buying this car, the car enthousiast/ connoisseur or the new billionaire from Asia/ Middle East (choose your country) looking for the 'most expensive car in the world'.

    My guess is that the auction company is aiming for the second. These are the people who are not in the 'inner circle' and are generally not interested in cars, except for prestige purposes.

    Imagine Mr A.

    He is a billionaire and already has a Van Gogh, an appartment in the Burj Khalifa and a Bugatti Veyron, with golden dashboard, in the garage. He does not read Ferrarichat or any related brochures or website as he is too busy doing deals.

    One morning he wakes up, reads the local news articles on his ipad and notices a column by the local newspaper car specialist about the upcoming sale of what could become the worlds most expensive car... . He remembers he is throwing a big birthday party on October 1 for his 60th birthday and is looking for something to 'dash' the audience of fellow billionaires who are invited.

    He goes to work and returns in the evening, hands a new Cartier pearl necklace to his wife to stop her nagging about his newest girlfriend and then remembers reading the article about this car... .

    He goes about buying the 'most expensive car in the world' and gets all the attention he is looking for.

    At the birthday celebration in his villa, around midnight , he invites his guests to his new garage extension and unveils the 250 GTO to the cheers of his audience. There it is, on a rotating platform, with black carpet, under the spotlights, with the sign below that reads 'the most expensive car in the world'. ....

    Around 3.00 AM, the last guests leave, including some wifes wondering how it can be that the most expensive car in the world does not have a ipod plug in or vanity mirror... . Mr A. also notices a light perfume of oïl that seems to come from below the engine so he will ask his car servant to check it out in the morning... .

    He returns to bed , happy from a good party, and ready to do some business in the morning. One week later, he will ask the car servant to park the GTO next to the Bugatti and put a cover on it.

    Likely or not ?

    Cheers,
    F
     
  22. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

    Jul 4, 2011
    1,158
    New York
    Full Name:
    Glen
    With the GTO being the pinnacle of the collector car market, it seems to me that the desirability a given GTO can then really only be measured against the desirability of all other GTOs.

    What is the pecking order of GTOs?
    .Do the cars with Le Mans history rank at the top? What's the importance of other races in this ranking?
    .Then the number of owners, or who the owners were?
    .How much does the driver history count?
    .The number of accidents and who or how the repair work was accomplished?
    .Do you start with 3757GT and work down the list from there?

    So, where does 3851GT belong in the pecking order of relative importance of GTOs? And how much in dollar terms does that really count when the car in question is one of 33 representing the pinnacle of the market?

    I guessed this auction at =>80 simply because as Mr. Nye stated in post #31, "investing in such an artefact, here is a best, uncomplicated, chance to do so... Free of complex negotiation, on the day this sale will be for real."

    Works of art may be in the eye of the beholder, but race cars can be measured by success. We'll see how many wallets open wide for this one!
     
  23. BRDC

    BRDC Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2012
    380
    You start with 4293. It's the best GTO in existence. 1st in class and 2nd OA at '63 Le Mans, a short but shining race career, and it's the most original GTO in existence. It's never been hit or modified. Its the very best GTO.
     
  24. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,805
    And that leaves the question which GTO is the worst…..!
     
  25. BRDC

    BRDC Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2012
    380
    I have one car in mind, but I'll keep it to myself.
     

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