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250 GTO at no reserve at Quail - BONHAMS

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Onebugatti, Jun 30, 2014.

?

what will 250 GTO #3851 auction for at Bonhams' August 15?

  1. <= $20mm

  2. $25mm

  3. $30mm

  4. $35mm

  5. $40mm

  6. $45mm

  7. $50mm

  8. $55mm

  9. $60mm

  10. $65mm

  11. $70mm

  12. $75mm

  13. => $80mm

  14. no idea

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  1. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
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    I can fully see the benefit to the auction house and perhaps the seller, considering who he is and who I'm sure will be granted very favourable commission rates......... However, I always understood that buyers at this level valued discretion and most GTOs have changed hands privately. I personally know nothing to detract from this car if the lien issues have been sorted but I am still surprised for the need or desire to sell at auction.........
     
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  3. John B

    John B Formula 3
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    #77 John B, Jul 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2014
    With the notoriety and attention this will attract combined with the ever extrapolating expectations, this has the potential to be the pin that pricks the bubble. If this sells for less than $50mm... "Helmets On!!!
     
  4. moriaan1

    moriaan1 Formula 3

    Dec 3, 2006
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    please please let the buyer keep it in this condition!! It would be a shame to "over" restore one of the last mostly original cars.. in existance.
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    can I start a poll what we think it will auction for in this thread?
     
  6. JSinNOLA

    JSinNOLA F1 World Champ
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    You will have to PM the board administrator :D
     
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  8. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
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    Good idea increments ranges of $5m starting at $20m? and based on hammer price?
     
  9. BRDC

    BRDC Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2012
    380
    Im excited. this could be the world's first billion dollar car.
     
  10. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
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    Nov 18, 2005
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    Not a chance. $60 million is my guess. But I'm neither a buyer nor a historian so what do I know. ;)
     
  11. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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    I think it will go for $75mm, and it will be a high water mark for a while.
     
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  13. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

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    Gone with $35m in poll think it will break the world record for a car at auction but not smash it.
     
  14. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    #86 peterp, Jul 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2014
    I'm curious about the "no reserve" decision as well. In practice, it doesn't mean much -- either way the car will sell for a lot (and, in the unlikely circumstance that it doesn't generate the expected bids, something will happen behind the scenes that acts like a reserve anyway).

    But from a purely marketing perspective, in my mind, "no reserve" sends a negative message. Obviously, when you think about it, it's almost impossible to associate desperation with a GTO owner/sale, but a hint of desperation was still part of my gut-level reaction when I first read that a car like this was selling with no reserve.

    The flip side, of course, is that no reserve means that (in theory at least) the car is certain to sell and I guess that helps generate buzz -- but a GTO sale at a public auction doesn't really need any artificial sweetners to generate buzz. Am I wrong to feel that the "no reserve" does more to cheapen the value of this particular car than it does to help create buzz? I am very curious what others think. If it was your car, would you have structured the auction with or without reserve from a marketing perspective? (assume you have a behind-the-scenes safety net if it doesn't meet your expected price)
     
  15. sperry

    sperry Karting

    Aug 6, 2013
    106
    It didn't make much sense until reading that the consignor is an investor in the auction house. The 'no reserve' tag has obviously gotten people talking and that was probably the #1 reason they did it.
     
  16. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2012
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    I think it was only right for Bonhams to list the GTO as no reserve. Think about it. What ever estimate they would have put on it they would have been criticised. Do you benchmark the car against recent private sales that were $53m and $48m? Or if these are inflated prices if you set it lower- what kind of message does that signal? It was a no win situation for Bonhams putting an estimate on the car that is the most talked about, the most wanted in the world.

    No reserve simply means let the market decide. We (Bonhams) have no opinion or don't want to voice one. Its very clever and the right thing to do. No reserve is not negative not for a GTO. If you are selling a 'normal' Ferrari lets say a 250 Coupe - then putting a no reserve price might be seen as negative (i.e.. what is wrong with the car).

    But not on a GTO.

    E
     
  17. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

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    Surely the vendor would decide if it should have a reserve not Bonhams, although they would presumably advise the vendor. Even if there was a reserve it is unlikely that Bonhams would publish what it was on a car like this anyway . The catalogue would just say refer department.
     
  18. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i voted for 65 mil. i think that makes sense given the rumored price of the last one sold a year or so ago, vs the rise across all the other vintage models.

    my view on the 'no reserve' aspect is that it is entirely likely that they have already identified, and invited, one or more buyers who have already said they would pay 50+ outside of the auction.

    so the idea is just to pit these guys against each other on the day, and watch the 'prisoner's dilemma' play out.
     
  19. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Oh man, a general article on MSN recounts that it was crashed and "almost broken in two" early in it's racing career.

    We ALL know what a salvage Title can do to Ferrari values!
    :D :D :D

    It would be an Italian Salvage Title I guess, the Factory rebuilt it, and kept on truckin'...
    Probably sold it "as New" they did that, now and then.
     
  20. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    Apr 20, 2004
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    In a traditional auction, there are three players. The seller, the auction house and the buyer. A reserve serves to provide a level of comfort to the seller that the auction house is going to do their job well and generate interest in the car. It also protects the auction house that a minimum fee for the auction will be generated. With this car, the auction house does not need to do that much to generate interest in the car as the risk of there being only a few bidders and the car going below market is nil.

    Also in this case there are sort of two and a half players, as the seller is apparently closely affiliated with the auction house. Therefore the level of trust is high between those parties already and the seller likely has a great deal of influence with the house. What is interesting is that the seller, by virtue of being an investor in the house, can benefit twice, once from the proceeds of the sale, but also by the revenue generated at the auction house as an investor.
     
  21. richardson michael

    Aug 17, 2013
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    Agree with Ney. however I believe a prearranged sale figure has been agreed. So there is a guy on the phone and a guy in the room. If the room man stops putting his hand up,then the auctioneer takes a bid 'off the wall' and telephone man goes one more. You continue this until you have reached the agreed figure. It generally works !
     
  22. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    Very interesting Edmond -- I did not even think about the estimate side of it. I didn't realize "no reserve" helps exempt them from publishing an estimate. The poll in this thread supports that it's difficult to estimate -- currently there are 2 votes (5%) that it will be under $20m and the rest are all over the map. I voted >$80m. I'm guessing that the public auction will bring in non-enthusiast "gotta have it" bidders that weren't looking previously and that wouldn't have been in the loop for prior private sale discussions. It will be interesting to watch.
     
  23. tilomagnet

    tilomagnet Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
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    Thats what I was thinking when seeing the pics....it will probably get the 100 point restoration treatment. I sure hope sure it doesnt, but it definately needs to be painted Argento/Grigio again as it was 50 years ago.
     
  24. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

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    We voted similar give or take $10m (I voted $70m). You make an interesting point. I also think that some bidders will be attracted to this car that would have not been so interested in private sale transactions. Especially the newcomers who like confirmation by the market that what they are buying is worth whatever amount the bidding will rise to. ;)
     
  25. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

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    Agree 100%. If I had the funds I would buy the car just for that original colour! Stunning! E
     
  26. tilomagnet

    tilomagnet Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    297
    Non-red GTOs seem to have more personality! And they are easily recognizebale even by non-diehards!
     
  27. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    #99 bigodino, Jul 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2014
    This is by no means certain and not confirmed (but also not denied) by the Louwman museum.
    But IMHO it wouldn't make sense for Louwman being the seller. A GTO would fit very well in his own museum! So why would he sell it? I think there's some other kind of arrangement that will only come out after the auction.
     
  28. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    Apr 20, 2004
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    Yes, not confirmed. It only makes sense in a rising market, buy wholesale, sell retail and recoup the bulk of your outlay making the rest of the purchase relatively cost effective. And just to be clear "I" am not the seller as indicated in your quote! ;)
     

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