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250 GTO at no reserve at Quail - BONHAMS

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Onebugatti, Jun 30, 2014.

?

what will 250 GTO #3851 auction for at Bonhams' August 15?

  1. <= $20mm

  2. $25mm

  3. $30mm

  4. $35mm

  5. $40mm

  6. $45mm

  7. $50mm

  8. $55mm

  9. $60mm

  10. $65mm

  11. $70mm

  12. $75mm

  13. => $80mm

  14. no idea

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  1. Vince

    Vince Rookie

    Apr 14, 2006
    42
    Bordeaux, France
    Full Name:
    Vince
    no, it's the same.
    but we can discuss the commision rate. In general, more the car is expensive (or if you have more than 1 car in the auction), more you can reduce the commision rate.
     
  2. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    27,189
    Paris / Chicago
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    Andrew Menasce
    Yes prices are moving that fast. Lussos were 1.2/1.6m last year, i heard they are 2.2/2.5m now. Look at Countach, they were $200-250k, now they are $500k, or even $1.2m for a Periscopica.
     
  3. tilomagnet

    tilomagnet Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    293
    There are always GTOs available for purchase at any time....its a rarity one comes up for public auction though.
     
  4. DennisForza

    DennisForza Formula 3

    May 23, 2006
    1,717
    Arlington, VA
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    Dennis
    Rising real fast, hope we don't hear too big of a POP soon!

    I really like the GTO, but I don't understand why TR's are not the top priced Ferrari.
     
  5. NickH07

    NickH07 Karting

    Jan 19, 2014
    95
    Greensboro NC
    Full Name:
    Nick Hawks
    wow! awesome! i cant even imagine how amazing that would be just to see... I truly hope the new owner has a passion that makes him keep it alive...
     
  6. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2009
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    +1
     
  7. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    838
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    T. Monma
    IMO; This car has been pretty much openly for sale and has been shopped around... to most of the usual suspects, for the last 6-7 years...
    Its ALWAYS been just a little more than the others, and, in the occassional instance of a legit offer(when they were sniffing mid to high 20s), THE RESPONSES typically were a counter of a higher amount by 10-20%, or so...
    After seeing this several times, with several different cars, one must conclude that the car(s) aren't actually REALLY for sale...???

    Factually, there are considerable and complex tariff, tax, and lien issues with this entire collection I'm told by those with the interest AND the capacity to accquire the entire brace of cars...Perhaps all this has been resolved, perhaps not, but remains a topic too diffuse and really germaine to the discussion here IMO...

    At the end of the day, and since there are SEVERAL other cars available, why would a perspective buyer subject themselves to such a 3-ring circus?
    My guess is that there will be phone in bids-by legit buyers-to the limit of the market's perceived value OF THIS CAR-which at the end of the day will be SUBSTANTIALLY LESS than almost all of the absurd numbers opined here...IMO...
     
  8. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
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    May 2, 2010
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    Mark
    I think a "no stories" GTO is $50m all day long. I personally don't think I'd want to own a car that had a fatality (yes I know dream on) but I don't think the market will discount for that as it was in period, raced afterwards blah blah. Assuming title is clear, I think the range unless there is some surprise result is $50m-$60m don't you think?
     
  9. babci

    babci Formula Junior
    BANNED

    May 19, 2011
    281

    Auction companies often when competing for major $ consignments will reduce the Sellers fees to 0. In addition they may also issue guarantees, advance loans to the consignor and purchase equity interest in a lot etc. They will lower on the block/post block buyers/sellers commissions to be paid and in some cases provide financing all to insure a sale close.

    The" no reserve" designation does absolutely nothing to provide any transparency to what actually occurs in a sale. In all situations there is nothing to prevent the consignor from beard purchasing the lot to protect himself which occurs on occasion. The consigner may or may not have to pay a portion of the buyers fee depending on how valuable a client they may be. In this case with one of the auctioning company's principals rumored to have a major equity interest in the lot (that fact should/will/may be publicly disclosed) IMO one will never know if he would have to pay. Further there is nothing to prevent the presale of the lot and it be withdrawn or for the sale to be manipulated in some other fashion.
     
  10. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jul 8, 2005
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    Jerome
    I say 75 mil including buyers premium
     
  11. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 25, 2002
    30,409
    houston/geneva
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    Ross
    interesting. where would the moderns come in then?
     
  12. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,186
    Sarasota
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    David
    Thank you gentlemen.
     
  13. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2009
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    Kevin
    ...unless you want to start getting different kinds of junk mail! LOL
     
  14. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    1,058
    London. UK.
    Full Name:
    Paul Baber
    +1 .......and I personally know of two separate UK investors ......rather than genuine collectors.... who walked away from this car. I dont know why....maybe it was the reported lien issues......I also dont understand why this car has come to auction if it is as desirable as one reads in this thread. Surely it would have sold privately and discreetly for its true worth without the cost of auction commissions....
     
  15. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
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    May 2, 2010
    3,237
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    Mark
    which ones were you thinking?

    For the supercars I would say if 288 is the benchmark, F40, F50 and Enzo will be 75% of a 288 and LaF will be 1.5 times a 288

    so with 288 at say $2m, that gives

    288 $2m
    f40 $1.5m
    f50 $1.5m
    enzo $1.5m
    Laf $3m
     
  16. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
    3,557
    São Paulo, Brazil
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    Mario

    That's where the owner of the car being an investor in the auction house comes in....

    Say Bonhams beats the record price for a motor car with the sale of this one, a feat that is not unimaginable and also one that will be very hard to beat... That will be one interesting way to raise the car & the auction house's value, no? At least it will attract other big fish, if they sell it for a lot.

    Cui bono? I think we know one answer... I see this as a good way for the guy to profit more than just on the sale of the car.
     
  17. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Apr 29, 2004
    10,901
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    Peter den Biggelaar
    I wonder what other nine cars are involved in this sale. If I were to buy ten cars from the collection, I would go for (in no particular order):
    - 250 GTO
    - 250 GT Interim
    - 250 GT SWB Aerodynamico
    - 250 GT PF SI spider
    - 250 GT TdF
    - 250 MM PF berlinetta
    - 250 GT SWB
    - 330 P
    - 365 P2/3
    - 512 BBLM
     
  18. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
    1,662
    New York City
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    Dave Powers
    Some great cars in there for sure, but (- 330P) Umm..
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/314744-330p-818-a.html
     
  19. Doug Nye

    Doug Nye Karting
    Honorary

    Jan 21, 2008
    203
    #69 Doug Nye, Jul 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just a few snaps from Bonhams' London HQ this past Monday evening... With its multiple Scuderia Campidoglio decals and other stickers removed, here's '3815' as she hasn't been seen for many years...in pure form.

    Quite a nice old motor car.

    The circular piece of art in the background, by the way, is by sculptor Anish Kapoor CBE RA, 'untitled 2005' and is due for imminent sale, estimate $760,000-$1.1-million. Cars are just one Bonhams auction department.

    DCN
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  20. gt4me

    gt4me F1 Veteran

    Sep 10, 2005
    5,364
    UK
    What a beautiful thing.
     
  21. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
    2,666
    Surrey, England
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    Matthew
    Seems to have quite a nose down stance? Different to Nick Mason's 3757GT which always seems to have quite a nose up stance when I see it at Goodwood.
     
  22. RJR89

    RJR89 Formula Junior

    May 14, 2006
    808
    Now that's a real piece of artwork.
     
  23. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    888
    Doug,
    Is my memory correct, I remember Robert Brooks, say hello to him from me (bought 3053 last year through your capable hands) auctioning the at the time most valuable car, the Bugatti Royale when at Christies, at the end of the previous bubble! So 25 years later, we are still there trying to beat our own records! But I also get a feeling he tried to auction a GTO at that time, or I am confused?
    P
     
  24. Doug Nye

    Doug Nye Karting
    Honorary

    Jan 21, 2008
    203
    The Royale was at Christie's Royal Albert Hall Sale a month to the day after Black whichever day it was, when Wall Street tanked. We operated as the Christie's Car Department in those days, headed by Robert Brooks. I don't recall a GTO there then. Malcolm Barber, who joined us at Brooks Auctioneers in 1994, ran Sotheby's car department at the time, and he subsequently sold a GTO in their Monaco Sale one year. After absorbing Bonhams and replacing 'Brooks' with that longer-established company name we offered the Patrick Ma GTO for sale at Gstaad, I think. But my memory fails on such vulgar commerce. I'm the non-commercial historian. I do the words - others do the music...

    DCN
     
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Owner Miami 2018

    Dec 1, 2000
    50,088
    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    that's funny!
     

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