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250 GTO at no reserve at Quail - BONHAMS

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Onebugatti, Jun 30, 2014.

?

what will 250 GTO #3851 auction for at Bonhams' August 15?

  1. <= $20mm

  2. $25mm

  3. $30mm

  4. $35mm

  5. $40mm

  6. $45mm

  7. $50mm

  8. $55mm

  9. $60mm

  10. $65mm

  11. $70mm

  12. $75mm

  13. => $80mm

  14. no idea

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  1. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    May 25, 2013
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    Tijn
    #301 MvT, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    UK
    Wow MvT you should make him an offer quick before he realises he has a fortune in his barn!!!
     
  3. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    No, no I can't do it, I was gonna let my last post stand......and pretend I didn't know it was a Datsun GTO, but couldn't go through with it, ha ha.
     
  4. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    So what is the agreed reason for the discount on this one? Fatality? Not concours condition?
     
  5. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    I personally don't believe that one sold for $52m. Show me the financial transactions first, otherwise we should be saying allegedly sold for $52m. At least with an auction we know the price.

    As for all the work being a negative I simply don't understand as most of them have had the same serious work over the years. Fatality yes but ignoring the alleged $52m sale this car sold very well.
    Pete
     
  6. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    hahaha ;) yeah sorry guys I could not resist :) The dimension are not the elegant of a real GTO 250. Anyway there are 3 real Ferraris in the barn next to the Datsun having the same appearance. btw it is not our direct neighbour, but our next neighbour as in country Belgium. It is for sale just like the Ferraris.
     
  7. tilomagnet

    tilomagnet Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    297
    Agreed reason? No such thing....

    IMHO...

    - very limited amount of buyers in this range

    - no shortage of GTOs, theres always at least one on the market - not a 'once in a lifetime' opportunity

    - good, but certainly not great racing history

    - bad karma

    - extensive repairs/rebuilding in period and recently

    Originality is the most important factor, concours condition or not doesnt matter....it doesnt cost more to restore a GTO to 100 points than a GTE. Peanuts compared to the sale price.
     
  8. GV27TIFOSI

    GV27TIFOSI Karting

    Jan 12, 2008
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    I thought Massini said this was a 'fake' car??
    GV27TIFOSI
     
  9. Onebugatti

    Onebugatti Formula Junior
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    If the price of $52M is that of the car in France, I think we can discount that sale as ''pending'' closure. If there is another one at $52/54m , I doubt it.

    At $38M, that is the benchmark market price - period.

    Any GTO repaired in period (1963/64) at the works is no big deal at all. I can't imagine any of the ''contemporized'' Ferrari crowd even knowing what karma is. So a guy died in a hospital after crashing his GTO , along with 100's of other race drivers in cars crashed all rebuilt. So what. The ratio discussed of original parts surviving on this car, hence a lower price is utter non-sense.

    What is real is EL bought the car and sold it, and it brought $38M. Every person out there figured the car at $30-$40, including the seller. A GTO is a $38M car today - that's the new official price guide. The chance for the 100M mark is the train that didn't make the station, and won't.

    Consider the train whacked Bugatti Atlantic with the foot bones in it, now ''reconstructed'' with no frame or anything else of it , etc etc etc and then at Pebble for the gloating , the experts , the theorist etc. People with that money, for it , or that for a GTO are not weighting in karma into the purchase or anything else in their life's .


    I had one of the best documented GP cars on the planet and the buyer did not even look at the history, or even understand it. So, the 38M for this GTO was for a car with a good history, in the same hands for 49 years, and it went for the market price - end of subject.

    Question is : Would a car with a better history bring more money? Today - not much more. No one would discount the one sold now for $38M, if targeting any of them. For the available cars on the market it was the best one. The new benchmark has just been set, and it's the first time since 2000 that one was auctioned.

    These ''air'' sales no one knows the inside deal on. Especially with the new Yodas of the Ferrari world being unpredictable on their opinions that are solely based on the exchange of money their way, or worst.

    Buying a GTO at these levels , and $38M is the new level, is just membership to the club. The dues go up and down as John Collins knows better than anyone.
     
  10. tilomagnet

    tilomagnet Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    297
    No, $38MM is the marketprice for 3851GT today. Theres easily factor 2-3 difference from the worst (read: least desireable) GTO to the top cars with the best racing history and high ratio of original parts. Each GTO is therefore valued very individually. I bet several deep pocketed guys who want a GTO didnt even show up at this auction because they only want a top tier example.
     
  11. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
    412
    West Coast USA
    I am sorry. You are just completely wrong here.
    I speak from specific knowledge, but that's about all I will say.
     
  12. S Brake

    S Brake F1 World Champ

    Aug 3, 2006
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    Do we know who bought the car?
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Pete
    We will have to wait until the next REAL sale to answer what the market value of a 250GTO is. Again the $52m has not been confirmed and cannot be considered the market value of a GTO.

    $38m is good money for a GTO. Lets see what the next sale gets.
    Pete
     
  14. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
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    Just because YOU don't know about a specific sale doesn't mean it wasn't REAL or others don't know.
    These cars don't come to auction. The Bonhams was a fluke - given the owner.
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    For anything to be used as a reference, there needs to be non-verbal proof.
    Pete
     
  16. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
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    Reference for what? Other buyers/sellers don't need to see it published.

    I would take a trusted buyer's, seller's or other insider's word.
     
  17. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Hmmm. Not trying to be a pain but what were the specifics of the deal?, ie. was it cash, did it involve shares (and their estimated value) and did it involve swapping something (property, etc., and their estimated value).

    If things were swapped as part of the deal then the supposed sale of $52m is very debatable.

    Anyway we can agree that they are at the top of the Ferrari market.
    Best
    Pete
     
  18. Birel

    Birel Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2005
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    Same gentleman who bought the McQueen 4 cam
     
  19. Vince

    Vince Rookie

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    Birel, from where ? US citizen ?
     
  20. iii56

    iii56 Karting

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    Possibly Hong Kong...
     
  21. Ducatiboy

    Ducatiboy Rookie

    Jul 2, 2014
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    #321 Ducatiboy, Aug 19, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
    If your right it goes to the UK.
    According to M. Massini the lucky guy who bought the Mcqueen 275 is also owner of the McQueen Lusso

    "Post #192 Thread: Steve McQueen's 275 under restore at Ferrari?

    It looks like it might soon join the same UK garage as the ex McQueen Lusso.

    Marcel Massini"

    Well done, Mr. Mo.... investing in Ferraris is better then waist your money on overpaid football Players
     
  22. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 9, 2005
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    He also a business man, but as you said well done!
     
  23. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
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    This is the funniest thing I have
    read on FerrariChat all year !
     
  24. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
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    Ed
    Looks like s/n 3851GT may have been restored back to original spec, including revisions to the nose and a repaint in the original Grigio Met.

    Can anyone confirm? Photos coming out of the Goodwood Revival indicate this is the case, but does anyone here have first-hand knowledge of the restoration?

    -Ed
     
  25. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
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    Ed
    Ignore this. It's a replica of 3851GT. See photo below for comparison with original car (the copy's not even LHD...). Anyone know the chassis number of car on the left?

    -Ed

    (Goodwood Revival photo credit: Tom Arnold)

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

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