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Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by theowinstone, Feb 1, 2010.
I believe Jim is right on this.
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Thank You ! is the pic from Tour de France 1963?
It's all in the name of the photo Michael.
Explains why my Nolan Ryan rookie card has TANKED in value since the '90s.
...maybe that 410 Superamerica is in my future, after all.
Er, don't agree.
Alfas, Bugattis, early Maseratis, etc. are still sort after and in say the Alfa 8c2300's case it's ~30 years older than a GTO.
Also old paintings don't tank in value ...
Yes, but those are "blue chip" collectibles. Scarcity, cultural importance and increasing concentration of wealth has driven the top pieces up. But much like art, lesser collectibles never rise as far and often see their values cycle wildly.
If someone from the future told me GTOs were trading past $100 million, as some art has in recent years, I wouldn't bat an eye. Okay, maybe about the time travel part but certainly not the prices!
I've given this some thought as well. I imagine that for these pre-war cars to remain as sought-after as they are today, there will still need to be a ready group of rich enthusiasts who even care enough about old cars to collect them 30 years from now. As was mentioned earlier, the # of old car enthusiats seems to dwindle to insignificance as you go down the age bracket. I suspect many 30-year-olds care equally little for old Ferraris as they do for even older Alfas, etc. At least to my eye, there don't appear to be many teenagers or twenty-somethings, or even thirty-somethings hanging out during Pebble Beach Concours, drooling over a Bugatti.
This is probably not a fair analogy, but I'll mention it anyways: everyone in every age group still seems to be interested in hanging something evocative on their walls, so perhaps the art market will have a leg up on the classic car market just due to market size.
Yes, generally speaking this is true, but I`m an example of one (at 33) who DOES care about those oldtimers... I grew up with the Testarossa`s, Countach`s, etc (the 328 ranks as one of my all-time Ferrari favorites), but was also completely fascinated with the pre-war stuff. I can attribute that to one of my Dad`s colleagues who restored a Bugatti Type 35... I don`t understand how anybody could NOT appreciate the beauty and engineering of these cars!
(note: photos taken in 1996. Car was unpainted by drivable... boy was it ever drivable! It started life as a box of parts. Features a rare STEEL tail and scuttle body parts. Not numbers matching but all genuine Molsheim)
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Add me to that list.
Great pics Peter.
Greay story Peter. Is that car still around? BC? (Sorry for the off topic)
I think while larger numbers of so called car enthusiasts will stick to the cars that push their buttons when at that impressionable age, but there will always be REAL engineer type of car enthusiasts which I consider myself to be.
What I've found is that I'm now interested in a very wide selection of cars from mid-70's and earlier. I'm only not interested in mid-70's on because the car as a solution has not improved since then, all that has happened is more gadgets have been added.
Any engineer can not but be interested in Bugattis, Alfa Romeos, Maseratis, Ferraris, early Vauxhalls, Duesenburgs (sp?), Miller, Delage, early Sunbeams and Peugeots and so many others that progressed automobile design and on the way came up with fantastically interesting solutions, etc.
This is also why a few motorcyclists ride Ducatis (or like me wish they did) ... but IMO their modern bikes are loosing that mechanical mavel look (?).
Bear in mind, given the way technology goes, that the older the car the more mechanically involved the owner can get. That will always be important.
Car located near Montreal, Quebec.
Restoration stalled shortly after those photos were taken, due to problems in the owner's life. Things have changed though and now that he is retired, he can focus back on this car and eventually get around to starting another one of his projects, a box-of-parts pre-war Alfa
!!!! more details please!
The concept behind this is called "cohorts." We all value the cultural artifacts that we grow up with. Lots of guys hitting their 60's still listen to classic rock and prize the vintage Ferraris making history at the track when they were kids. Conversely, the kid born in 1985 is starting to see a bit of success. He grew up with hip hop and electronica. In five years, what cultural cohort or artifact will he value?
The GTO will probably always be sought after, perhaps in a self-fulfilling spiral of value, like a Picasso (prized often because it's expensive). It's the other pieces that will cycle as cohorts rise and fall.
It's NOT an 8C, that I know for sure. I can't remember the specifics, all I do remember were seeing the fenders and chassis leaning up against a wall and a pile of boxes labled: "ALFA"...
I am a 22 year old and I absolutely treasure vintage Ferraris, particularly the SWBs. 30 years from now, if the GTOs are going for 100m I would definitively buy one if I have the money. I have had a love for vintage Ferraris since grade school; when my uncle took me to Classic Coach was when I first fell in love with them. I do agree that my fellow generation is stupid and uncultured thanks to MTV and the liberal media. They would rather have a "pimped out" escalde or the newest ferrari. I also treasure old Ferrari F1 cars, some of them go for as low as 250k(early 90s and late 80s) but you need track and mechanical support. But i do hope for my self-interest that the value of the GTOs will range from 1-5 million 25 years from now.
You know I find it amazing that some don't investigate these older Ferraris or even just the history of anything they are interested in ... but some just don't care I guess.
Happy to hear that you're as sophisticated as you are at such a young age. This means that if there are more like you, the love and the passion for the hobby for the vintage Ferraris in 2040 will be alive and well. If more of the youth of the emerging economies of Asia join the fun, than a 1984 512 BBi will be @ $5M with the GTO @ $100M. There will be a lot of upset former owners that let their BBis go for $80-$100K!!
P.S. Classic Coach did the DOT conversion on my 2000 original Km 1981 BBi.
Or at any price.
I will be turning 30 in a few months and certainly appreciate pre-war Alfas, Maseratis, Bugattis and '50s Ferraris. I am certain there will always be a following for exemplary cars, but I have trouble believing that 20 years from now some of my former classmates are going to be paying a prices comparable to today for say, a 330 GTC. How many of you are just itching to own an RL Alfa Romeo?
RL v F50 - I know which I'd choose.....no contest.The RL everytime
Getting back on topic with S/N: 4675, I came across these two YouTube videos, of a test drive of this car for an upcoming (April 2010) issue of "Classic and Sportscar" magazine (UK publication).
I must say it sounds awesome, but something ain't right about that steering wheel. They're driving down a straight road and yet it's totally cranked to the left... I wonder if that'll be mentioned in the article:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGVbx4oMCSA
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS2PZ6mmYwI
Thanks for posting, that's probably as close as I'll ever come to a ride in a '64 GTO.
The steering wheel position is easily corrected, maybe there's a good reason for it, like the bottom spoke not poking at your groin in case of an impact? Just guessing.
If someone is selling a multi million dollar car I think there better be a really good explanation for the steering wheel not being properly centered. This is an embarrassingly obvious fault. just one man's opinion tongascrew