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250 GTE/GTO

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by TexasMike, Jun 29, 2006.

  1. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    I'm speaking for myself, but to me it's just like land--they aren't making anymore. If it's on a currently produced car, I don't care. Ferrari can just make more. It might even get to a point where you can rarely find a 250GTE for sale if most of them are re-bodied. I, for one, would like to own an original 250GTE and now there's one less because of this car. All just imho.
     
  2. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran
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    #27 Horsefly, Jun 29, 2006
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    Does anybody know if a complete 250GTE was REALLY chopped up to make this car, or did somebody take a wrecked car and use the chassis and engine for the spyder? Suppose that you had a car like this 330. It would probably cost a ton of money to repair. Would it be wrong to utilize the chassis and engine for a fantasy replica spyder?
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  3. ArtS

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    Arlie,

    I'm amazed that you, of all people are not opposed to GTE scrifice!

    I actually almost bought the 330 2+2 in your picture. One of the benefits of 2+2s being parted is that there are enough spare bodyshells to rebuild them after a wreck. By the way, the cause of that wreck was a wheel failure. The car was 2+ condition prior.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  4. Horsefly

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    Art, I think that sometimes the "parting out" question is TOO black and white. After all these years, there are quite a few stripped out bare frames that could never be restored to a complete car, so why not make something out of them? Of course even a bare frame COULD be rebuilt into a complete car, but the end result would be a mongrel with the frame of one car, the body of another and the engine of another. I have seen a few stripped out frames and bodies on E-bay through the years. They would cost a king's ransom to rebuild, and in the end, who would want to sink big money into a mongrel car.

    Whatever happened to that wrecked 330? Any idea where it went?
    (I'll bet that it's a low mileage original by now!!!)
     
  5. ArtS

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    #30 ArtS, Jun 29, 2006
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    Charles B.,

    I agree that it's sad that a GTE was lost in creating this; but I disagree with your comment bashing the design. At least the car wear a (somewhat) original design. I much prefer to see this type of creativity rather than just another fake GTO.

    This coupe was built on a 400 chassis, not blessed by Ferrari, but I love the original design (actually much more so than the GTO convertible):

    Regards,

    Art S.
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  6. Horsefly

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    Art, I agree with you on that 400 custom creation. Very nice. And it probably only cost a small fortune to build. But it resembles a Kellison to me. And you're in luck. If you can't afford to build one of your own, just bid on this Kellison that is currently on E-Bay. (Maybe if you stuff a 400 motor in it, nobody will know the difference!)
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Replica-Kit-Makes-Kellison-J6-Coupe-1963-Kellison-J-6-For-Sale-By-Original-Builder-Owner_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ7251QQihZ008QQitemZ180001425390QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
     
  7. JSinNOLA

    JSinNOLA F1 World Champ
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    Say what?! What a breathtaking design! I can't believe I have never seen or heard of this car. Have anymore pictures or info you can share?

    Outstanding!
     
  8. Julio Batista

    Julio Batista Formula 3

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    Thank you Mike. For me, Ferraris are blue!

    Cheers,

    Julio
     
  9. boothguy

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    Someone paid a whole lot of money for this car to be produced. Lots of hours in there, and the work appears to be really nicely done, but to what end, really? To produce a car that never existed? I guess if you have enough money, you can create your own version of reality - just ask Michael Jackson. If I saw this car and a nicely restored GTE sitting side-by-side at an event, I'd for sure spend more time looking over the GTE. Horsefly, the way these conversions work, this was undoubtedly a complete GTE that was cannibalized.
     
  10. Simon

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    As much as I hate to see cars chopped up for replicas, if it's done well, I really don't see the problem. If anything, I'd rather see cars like this created, a new concept, rather than just another 250SWB replica.

    I don't see anyone complaining in Jim's Enzo thread about the loss of an Enzo. I believe more 250 GTE's were built than Enzos, they aren't building Enzos anymore. So why no consternation there? Is it simply because Pininfarina are doing the conversion, or is it because of the time difference? Jim with his new Enzo, the GTO cabrio being created 15/20 years after the GTE was built?


    As far as how it look....personally I don't think it looks good. A GTO cabrio just doesn't sit well IMO. Now a 275 NART Spyder, thats another story :)
     
  11. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Simon

    There may be a bit of a difference and if you wait until the September issue of Car and Driver comes out you may understand why.

    Remember that Ferrari re-bodied many cars. 0844/0846/0856/0858/0860/several 250 GTO's etc., etc.

    Ferrari has also blessed several re-bodies that others such as Zagato/Pininfarina/ and others have done. It has done this through it's history and as recently as last May with Peter's Kappa and Zagato's 550 GTZ.

    Cars such as P4 0856 which was re-bodied with a differnt style body than it originally came from the factory with by Ferrari has been given awards at Pebble and been put on the cover of Cavallino.

    The 250 GTO's that Ferrari stripped and scrapped the original bodies from and replaced with a radically differently looking bodies are accepted without question in their re-bodied state.

    I very much doubt that GTO's 3413 and 4091 would be considered in the same way if the bodies designed and affixed by Ferrari after removing and scrapping the ones they had originally put on these cars were removed today and replaced with replica Seris 1 GTO bodies by their current owners.

    When Ferrari re-bodies a car it's former identity is no more. For example when Ferrari re-bodied and modified P3 0846 in December 1967 into P 3/4 0846, P3 0846 ceased to exist. The same is true of Seris 1 GTO's 3413 and 4091. The same is ture of Peter's Kappa and the 550 GTZ. The original cars upon which they were based are gone and their new identity is the one recognized by Ferrari.

    Best
     
  12. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    Me thinks that this is the main difference between the various GTE/GTO conversions and Jim's rebodied Enzo. To make a GTE into a GTO you have to cut the frame. Once you do this, the "original" GTE is gone forever.

    However, in the early days, owners and Ferrari used to rebody cars (without cutting the chassis) due to, ah, some mishaps that had occurred to the original body.

    There were also numerous cases where the original owner simply wanted to change the body; again, without major modifications to the original chassis.

    From the little that I know, it is the original chassis, i.e., the telaio, that is the touchstone of originality. Everything else is replaceable.

    Dale
     
  13. TexasMike

    TexasMike F1 Veteran

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    Very interesting view... I have never looked at it that way before.

    BTW, I didn't realize they had to cut the frame to make the GTO Spyder.
    I will ask the owner who made the body when I see him again.
     
  14. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I totally love it. It's the car they should have built. More power to him to realize his dream.

    As for the laughing comment: The one 250 GTO Spyder we see occasionally at events in the Midwest doesn't get laughed at but simply admired and normally has a special place in the midst of the vintage section.
     
  15. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior
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    #40 redcar1, Jun 30, 2006
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  16. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
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    Arts...


    That 400 based special is STUNNING! While I do like the 250GTO spider and think it would be a real hoot to own and drive that special you posted pics of is truely amazing.

    I would actually rather own a one-off unique special "re-body" such as that rather than a psydo-replica like the GTO spider. AS Jim says, lots of older Ferraris got rebodies. Whether Tom Meade or some Italian company rebodied it in period or it got a more recent rebody, if the quality is as you posted.... its fine by me.

    AS to GTE's being lost, I dont get it? You could always buy the replica, buy a GTE body and convert it back.



    Terry
     
  17. TexasMike

    TexasMike F1 Veteran

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  18. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Terry,

    You and I are on the same page re the original design vs. a copy. I forget who commissioned the 400 but it was done in England - I'd take it in a heartbeat and drive it daily! Frankly, if an original design (and I don't mean a copy of someone else's original design like a modern copy of the nembo) was done, on a '60s chassis, it wouldn't hurt quite as much.

    I disagree with you regarding the GTEs being made into replicas. There have been a number of nice, straight, rust-free originals that have been broken up (if you hunt around the internet, there is a very nice, complete, clean body available in Europe).

    In order to get the replica right, the frame must be significantly modified (shorten the frame, relocate the drivetrain mounts, etc.) to make this work. To me it is a sin to destroy an original, historical, rare car (total GTE production is less than a single day's production of Ford's Taurus) to save a few dollars in creating a kit-car/replica. And then there are the ones where they cut too many corners - like not modifying the chassis - and the result a poorly handling piece of junk. I think Sheehan wrote an article on this a while back.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  19. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Arlie,

    Regarding the 330 2+2 wreck: I understand that it went to Texas for around $33k - $35k. Not bad considering it had a rebuilt drivetrain and fresh interior.

    The Kellison is interesting but, to my eye, the design is a little crude.

    Also, regarding these replicas being made from bare frames - I've never heard of this being the case. Generally a complete GTE is destroyed in the process.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  20. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    This is right on the money and explains why so many people get upset when a GTE gets chopped up. The odds of Humpty Dumpty getting put back together are something less than zero.

    Dale
     
  21. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Thats a great looking design, rear reminds me of a Jag E
     
  22. TexasMike

    TexasMike F1 Veteran

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    Art, Do you know what color that car is?
     
  23. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    William,

    To me it looks like an E-type crossed with a Shelby coupe - lythe yet agressive!


    Mike,

    It's dark blue... ;)

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  24. TexasMike

    TexasMike F1 Veteran

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    Thanks :rolleyes:

    My friend told me the name of a dark blue that he is going to paint his 330 GTC and I was wondering if that could be the color? I don't remember the official name, but I'm going to ask him again next time I see him.
     
  25. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Mike,

    Sorry, I couldn't resist!

    To me, it looks like Sera Blu Metalazo but it might be darker.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     

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