24 Heures du Mans 2017

Third-place Rebellion Oreca just disqualified for the modified bodywork. They cut a hole to be able to bang on the starter solenoid without removing the rear. Instead of calling them on it at the time - when it was blatantly obvious - the stewards have deliberated and reviewed video from one of their technical reps and disqualified them completely.

 

yep....unbelievalbe! thanks for the heads up

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/rebellion-lmp2-squad-stripped-of-overall-le-mans-podium-920544/

 

Hang on, Porsche have now won 2 years in a row with hybrid and electric power.

Toyota seriously stuffed up this year at Le Mans. They didn't even make half way with 2 of their cars, but yes the third did finish.

I really want them to win, but currently it is a bit like watching Honda try to make a competitive F1 engine/PU again, ie. it's not happening. Toyota entered 140 F1 races and never won a single race AND they were accused of gaining Ferrari design information in 2004 and still could not work out how to make that final but critical step from "well funded grid filler" to "genuine competitor".

In regards to Le Mans, they remain a well funded grid filler and surely high ranked members of their race team will be getting seriously grilled now by their boss(es).

I do hope they work it all out as it will be good for the sport.

BTW: Some of you seem not to like the look of the LMP1 and 2 cars. I think they are awesome and I'd rather see F1 race cars like this than any halo or windscreen jokes. Just imagine a 70 lap sprint in these amazing machines, screaming into that first corner bumping and pushing each other for track position ... surely the future of F1?
Pete

 

Here is another quote from his letter.

Sure Porsche won this year, but not by much, and only over a P2 car. When you compare the budget of P1 vs the other categories, you have to wonder if it is worth it. Only 2 of the 5 P1 cars finished. And the 2 that did finish had some pretty major mechanical issues themselves. Had a P2 car taken overall, I think they would be seriously questioning their investment.

I actually think the P1 and P2 cars look pretty awesome. I would never call them pretty though.. I do wish there was more of a visual difference between P1 and P2.

 

The plot thickens - Rebellion were seen trying to apply a patch to cover the hole in parc ferme!
Henri - fake a seizure by the nose while Jean Luc slaps this patch on the engine cover!

 

I can´t believe they only saw the hole in the Rebellion now. I saw it live on TV and wondered what the heck they were doing with that stick! I supposed ACO had hordes of marshalls checking TV monitors all the time but it seems NOTTT.

 

Isn't there an official with each car during the pit stops to make sure no rules are broken?

 

Yes and they have video from a staff member of the technical delegate. This wasn't missed during the race they must have chosen not to react at that time. There was discussion in parc ferme and there was a meeting with the team manager post race. Rebellion is protesting. On what basis I have no idea.

 

Now that just being ridiculous......they got busted. I don't know why the Marshalls did'nt "red flag" them right there on the spot.

 

The difference this year was that it was 90+F degrees throughout the weekend at at Le Mans.

Porsche was obviously having difficulties with overheating during qualifying and if truth be told
quite likely Toyota was as well but it never showed until the race.

Heat brings about a whole other set of circumstances and if they're not able to adequately
cool the hybrid motors, they're heading for trouble.

BHW

 

The ACO at its best: devious!

A similar incident as the last Mirage attempt at Le Mans. The car was entered by Harvey Cluxton of Gran Touring Car Phoenix, Arizona for the Andrettis.

The car was inspected and passed the scrutineers, was allowed to practice and qualified, then was declared illegal as it was pushed to the grid!

 

That does it then ..no hybrid for me ...ever.

 

Er, so they all stuffed up their design assuming it was going to be cold or something. Next year they will get it better, just like early ICE's had design issues 100 years ago and EXACTLY the purpose of Le Mans.
Pete

 

Colin Chapman took his Lotus to Le Mans in the early 1960s and was too competitive in the Index of Performance/ 750cc class, usually the province of DB Panhard and other obscure French marques. Scrutineers discovered the front wheels/ hubs had four studs, rears 5 studs and the car only carried 1 spare so they declined approval on that rationale, Colin went away and his mechanics made the simple modification to ensure that all four hubs had four studs. The scrutineers disqualified them again because of an unsafe modification. Hey I am part French, as are the scrutineers and why not have a little parochialism but Colin was not amused (he was furious) and for the rest of his life, Lotus never entered Le Mans again.

 

Yes, I know that story.

French scrutineers are famous for being bias.

Remember the 1966 Monte Carlo scandal ?

 

Don't know about that.

Would say that the hybrid technology is still in development stages and that they came
away from this race learning a lot of valuable lessons.

Porsche and Toyota are pushing the boundaries, that's for sure. But, the way that the
Toyotas would take off like rockets when the hybrid power kicked on, leaving the Porsches
in the dust was pretty telling that Gazoo Racing has found a little extra something in the
hybrid power department.

BHW

 

The Hare and the Tortoise story comes to mind.

It's not the fastest or the best car that wins, but the one that stands the punishment best.

To a certain extend, I am glad that cars have reliability issues again at Le Mans, like in the good all days.

The race is about endurance, first of all, and has unfortunately looked like a sprint in recent years.

 

Porsche to attend F1 engine meeting, Austrian GP

Porsche will be attending an engine meeting and the Austrian Grand Prix, eyeing up the possibility of moving into the sport in 2021 when the new engine deal come into play. The German manufacturer won Le Mans for the third year in a row last weekend and could be looking at an entry into Formula 1.

"We now know the (Le Mans) regulations for 2020," said Porsche's Le Mans chief Fritz Enzinger. "In the next weeks Peugeot should decide whether they come or not. But even if they do, we have to consider whether we want to go another two or three years in Le Mans. At the moment, I cannot assess that."

It is also rumoured that Formula E is an interest of Porsche, as the electric series becomes more popular and takes off globally. There are also suggestions that McLaren is interested in a customer engine deal with the marque, however, they are also thought to be lining up a Mercedes deal for 2018.

The last time Porsche was involved in Formula 1 was 1991, when they supplied Footwork with engines. The project was a disaster and only lasted six rounds. The failed to even to qualify for over half the races that year.

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/227774/porsche-to-attend-f1-engine-meeting-at-austrian-gp?utm_source=other&utm_medium=rss

 

Well, I was afraid of that!

LMP1 has only 2 players left now, and I think Porsche needs a more challenging opposition than just Toyota.

But F1 isn't Porsche natural environment, IMO.

It may be that Mercedes has given indication they will be leaving F1 at the end of the present formula, as I anticipate.

 

If a VAG brand is going to enter F1, I would think Lamborghini would make more sense.

although Porsche has had success as both constructor and engine supplier in F1 in the past. whether or not they see tech transfer from LMP1 to F1 to flatten the learning curve (see also: Honda) is the big question IMO.

 

Since in-race engine swaps ended long before I picked up a (professional) camera, I did
a brief search and found this image of the Interscope Racing crew carrying out an engine
change at Daytona circa 1979.

As attrition was an issue and winners often won by dozens of laps back in those days, teams
were allowed to do in-race full engine changes. As seen here, two full engines with all the
turbo plumbing and other accouterments attached with the blown engine pulled out and the
new one ready to go in.

Teams could do this, losing perhaps a hour or even two, and still come back to score a
respectable finish and pick up some points for the championship. And, of course, a few
more cars circulating at the finish as back in those days, the majority of the field DNF'd
by sunrise.

To memory, this practice was banned at the end of the GTX era.

BHW
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So that might have cost Toyota the win in LM this year...unbelievable
Video Emerges of Bizarre Pit Lane Incident That Led to Toyota Failure - Sportscar365

 

Wow.

I can tell you who won't be driving for Toyota...ever

 

Sorry to disagree there, but from a commercial viewpoint, it wouldn't make sense for the VAG Group to spend $billions to promote Lamborghini.

The idea to advertise is to sell more. Which VAG brand is likely to benefit the most from more exposure? in order of production number and sales expectations:

- Volkswagen
- AUDI
- Skoda
- SEAT
- Porsche
- Bentley
- Lamborghini
- Bugatti

So, I don't think that VAG would see much return in terms of sales increase if they badged their F1 team Bugatti, Lamborghini or Bentley. Those are luxury cars, well above £100K (nearer $250K, and up to $800K) . I don't think the F1 sponsorship would be well spent trying to push sales in that sector!

But Volkswagen needs a bit of added fizz lately after the dieselgate, and AUDI is the sporting arm of VAG, with some DNA going back to the pre-war Silver Arrows.
Both Volkswagen and AUDI are mass producers too, and their sales figures could benefit from more exposure.
VAG money would get a better return with these 2.

 

Thanks God, this doesn't exist anymore.

Not only the mechanics work in a dangerous environment without protection (pit lane), but this goes completely against the ethics of endurance racing!!

Changing engine. What next ? Changing the whole car?