2023 Australian GP: Post Race Analysis | FerrariChat

2023 Australian GP: Post Race Analysis

Discussion in 'F1' started by SS454, Apr 2, 2023.

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  1. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

    Oct 28, 2021
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    Chris S
    The Australian Lottery Grand Prix. The Red Flag procedure remains as one of the worst situations in Formula 1. Why teams are allowed to work on the cars and change tires makes zero sense. It negates all the racing and strategy that happened before hand, and it's a lottery of who benefits and who suffers. It's ridiculously unfair. Not to mention the time it takes the race director to go from Safety Car to Red Flag.

    There is an argument if the red flags should have even been thrown. During the first red flag, we saw the amount of track workers as well as a sweeper truck on track. To do this under a SC would have been difficult. The second red flag; A red flag for a tire is pretty uncommon. However, the red flag did ensure we would get racing to the end, and that is what we all should want.

    If a red flag was just a way to pause the race, there would be far less issues. Perhaps it needs to be looked at if the restarts are a rolling start or a standing start.

    It is atrocious how bad the FIA and Stewards to do not know their own rules and procedures. A mess that could be solved, but the supposed big brains in F1 just can't figure out.... after how many decades?

    Red Bull Racing are without question the class of the field. Factually speaking we aren't talking 1 or 2 seconds a lap, but their advantages are in all the right places. Over the past week or two the media is flooded with the power of their DRS. This is a bit over hyped. Red Bull have had a straightline advantage from the start of 2022, a lot of it because they don't get the same energy "clipping" as other teams. Their DRS is very efficient, but it's also in how they use their battery down the straight. Once Verstappen got the lead, he was in cruise mode. His final restart after the red flag was on the absolute limit of being legal inside the grid box. I wonder if he was in contact with his team to help him line up as far forward as possible. Perez had a decent drive from starting in the pit lane. He didn't seem to make passes as easily as expected. Reminiscent of how Hamilton would pass any car like it was standing still, but Bottas couldn't do anything.

    Mercedes had the 2nd best car, one that could potentially fight for poles and wins in the near future? Certainly not the piece of garage Lewis and Toto wanted people to believe. Hamilton got very lucky with the Red Flag. One lap after complaining his race was messed up by not pitting under the SC just as Russell did, he was in prime position because of the Red Flag. He didn't have the car to attack Max, but controlled the pace ahead of Alonso perfectly. A well deserved 2nd place. George Russell had nothing but bad luck, but these days happen.

    Aston Martin can be very happy with their result. Another podium for Alonso and P4 for Lance after that chaotic "final lap" which nearly destroyed both their races.

    McLaren can be even happier. They have been dreadful all season, and to get double points is enormous. Lando was spectacular, genuinely drove his car into the points on his own pace. Oscar got a little bit lucky, but scored his first points in F1. Great day for McLaren.

    Haas got a great result from Hulkenberg. He is pulling away as the clear better driver on the team. Especially after a brain fart from KMag, driving himself into the wall. It puts in perspective how bad Mick Schumacher was, and how even worse Mazepin was.

    Alfa Romeo still in the battle for points, which is good to see. Zhou continues to show he is better than what people think, and Bottas continues to show he is worse than what people think.

    AlphaTauri led by Yuki Tsunoda getting a point. We heard he was managing something with the car, didn't hear what it was, though I suppose he should be satisfied with a point. There were moments in the race De Vries looked good, but he got punted in the "final lap".

    Ferrari. The team have another page of screw ups. Their expectation for rain in Quali and their push laps being at the wrong time. The reality is the results are more of a "things happen" sort of deal. Leclerc's collision with Stroll on lap 1 was 100% a racing incident. Carlos SC pitstop was not a bad call, he just got hosed by the Red Flag, which he managed to battle back from with some astounding pace. Unfortunately, he was at fault for the "final lap" collision with Alonso, which caused all the carnage. He missed the apex, understeered wide. In any other lap, that penalty is 100% deserved. Sadly, given the timing of the penalty, it took him out of the points.

    Alpine had a fantastic racing going. Gasly was brilliant up until the end. Sure his pace was slowing in the closing laps, but ultimately on the "final lap", he rejoined the circuit in perhaps an unsafe way, but he also didn't check his mirrors which pinched his teammate into the wall. Very costly mistakes. Should he have been given a grid penalty for the next race even?

    Williams had a lot of potential for a good result today. Logan Sargeant was never near the same level as his teammate, and had a Forza Online moment, driving up the backend of De Vries off the last restart. Albon the purple S2 driver, had a very strange spin. Very unfortunately as points looked very likely for him.

    Driver of the Day: Lando Norris. One of, if not the worst cars on the grid getting P6 at a track that is tough to pass, in a car that has terrible straight line speed. Very impressive. Gasly might have been the guy until he made a huge mistake that took out both Alpines.
     
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  2. davem

    davem F1 World Champ
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    Just finished the race…. Why penalize Sainz if Alonso gets a redo, not suffering from being punted!?

    If Alonso can get a Time Machine so should everyone!
     
  3. FatMike

    FatMike Karting

    Jul 4, 2018
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    This would be a good rule.

    It would also be a good rule that if you cause a crash you can't finish ahead of the person you wreck.

    /
     
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  4. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

    Oct 28, 2021
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    Red Bull DRS advantage faked by Hamilton/Mercedes?

    We are hearing a lot about Red Bull's DRS lately. Lewis Hamilton has been very vocal about how fast the Red Bull is. Making claims he has never seen a car that much better, which is nowhere near as dominant as some of the Mercedes cars he drove. He again talked about how unbelievably fast the Red Bull is in a straight line, how it passed him so easily. It looked crazy on TV, but to me it looked strange, so I looked into it. Sure enough, the telemetry shows Hamilton's own driving gave a false impressive to just how fast the Red Bull was.

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    On lap 12 the pass for the lead was made. Hamilton for some reason had his slowest lap of the race, by a huge amount. A 1:24.616. Verstappen using DRS, set a very fast lap for that time of the race at 1:21.994.

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    We can see Max was 24 kph faster than Hamilton with his DRS open. That's big, but since 2019, speed deltas of 20 kph are not uncommon.

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    Here we see Lewis let off the throttle prematurely. Max has DRS open, full throttle, hard on the brakes into turn 9. Vmax 324-325 kph. Hamilton Vmax of 298 kph drops to 269 kph at the point Max hits the brakes. Hamilton dropped over 2 tenths of a second in that very short period of time.

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    In other laps by Hamilton, that were not aided by DRS, he stayed at 100% throttle much longer, braked much later, and carried a lot more speed into Turn 9. At the same point where Max hit the brakes, Lewis was typically 25-30 kph faster than the lap he was passed.

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    It's not a case of being concerned of aero understeer into turn 9 since Verstappen was many many car lengths ahead before the corner anyways. We can see Carlos Sainz in the laps he went from 8th to 6th, using DRS and in the tow of cars going into turn 9, he was able to carry more speed while being closer to the car ahead.

    What's going on here? Is this Mercedes playing games, is it Lewis specifically in order to draw doubt into the legality of the Red Bull? The Red Bull is crazy fast on the straights, they have been since the start of 2022, so maybe there is something fishy going on. Is it a tactic to continue to pretend the Mercedes is not as fast as it really is? The telemetry suggests this was done on purpose. The comments to the media is of a narrative that Red Bull is so much faster, and mysteriously fast on the straights. The media is eating it up and spitting it out as part of the narrative. Sky Sports at least are regularly making comments about how "its the car", which didn't seem to be the case when Mercedes were dominant. So many questions, and we will never get honest answers, so there it allows for a lot of speculation.
     
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  5. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

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    So true. The reset the grid to make Alonso's spin effectively something that didn't happen. So therefore why the Penalty?

    Devils advocate might say because the Alpine's didn't get a redo, which only got collected because of Sainz.

    Such a weird situation that F1 and the FIA don't have a clear set of rules or procedures for. It seemed like they spent 30 minutes trying to figure out what to do on a whim, trying to formulate a result that doesn't make them look like the muppets they are.
     
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  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    Make no sense. Nulify everything before redflag except Carlos infraction? alpines the clear loosers....weird
     
  7. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    My opinion: The cars should not be allowed to receive any type of service, adjustment, repair or tires during a red flag period. They should take the restart in the condition that they were in when they entered the pits. If their condition at that time presents a legitimate safety concern…as determined by race officials…. they should not take the restart, and no work should commence until the other cars have taken the restart.
     
  8. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    The biggest problem I have with Sainz' penalty is that Sargeant didn't get a penalty at all and neither did Gasly...Sargeant just drove clear into the back of De Vries, zero excuses on that, Gasly squeezed Ocon, who at a BIG push could claim he was still out of control (which I don't believe for a second).
     
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  9. Mosin

    Mosin Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2021
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    It looked exactly the same for all Perez over takes too, LH did slow down after being over taken, he didnt need to push, was never going to keep up, so why waste tyre when Alonso was catching him?

    But any way, Perez was going past every body just the same.
     
  10. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    just when i'm trying my best, to muster-up a modicum of respect for Hamilton ...
     
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  11. tatcat

    tatcat F1 World Champ
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    I am disappointed
     
  12. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Well, I'm glad I didn't lose any sleep last night staying up to watch it. The FIA was a total clown show today. After the absurd third restart of the race, when they gave Sainz the 5 sec. penalty, Ferrari should have withdrawn from the race and not put Carlos back on the track as a protest. Charles seemed to be on a self destructive bent this weekend. It is as if the whole team is imploding, as if Binotto is still running the show. It looks like MB has already passed AM for second in the championship. And Alpine has passed Ferrari. Now, if we can only hang onto fifth.
     
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  13. USMCS6

    USMCS6 F1 Rookie
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    I agree. Park the cars until they can show up at the race. That 5 sec was crap. I'm not saying CS might have been a bit "sporty" with the move, but the FIA kinda forced that! What do they expect the drivers to do, ask permission to pass? Give FA the place back and move on
     
  14. USMCS6

    USMCS6 F1 Rookie
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    FFS look at the mess Russel and Stroll cause.
     
  15. Cyt

    Cyt F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2014
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    This is stemmed from Bahrain '21 when SC was called and was let to race...

    At the time, many called for a race restart as the way it should have been....

    So this is what FIA gave out.

    Yes, they made further mess with the outcome due to the various incidences.
    As audience we got an anti climax..

    It's a racing show ultimately and they should be left to race.. of course with due safety- a fine balance indeed.

    I sympathise with the stewards, a tough call indeed. In recent past a marshall would have picked up the debris.
     
  16. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    So, with just a hair less than 4 weeks until the next race, let's see how many excuses Ferrari can come up with to not to have major major major upgrades and performance fixes in that time. In the first three races...aka disasters...we are already down to 4th as a team, while the drivers continued to move down the ladder in the driver's championship. If Vasseur doesn't have them fighting for the pole and racing at the front by Azerbaijan, then something is very very strange and very very wrong at Ferrari. McLaren and Haas and Williams looked better this weekend. Mercedes was looking better, Alpine was looking better. The best Ferrari can claim about this weekend is that they looked (a little) stronger than Alphatauri and Alfa Romeo.
     
  17. JotaEle

    JotaEle Formula Junior
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    I’ve just checked.

    All is cool; Sainz is fifth in the driver’s standings.

    The natural order of things remains unaltered.
     
  18. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    BBC has this about RedBull's speed/pace advantage over the field - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/65153096

    Red Bull deliberately holding back?


    The carnage in Melbourne distracted from a race that had been another demonstration of Red Bull's overwhelming superiority.

    Verstappen dropped from pole position to third at the first start. But once Russell had made his opportunistic pit stop and the race restarted, the world champion took the lead from Hamilton with breathtaking ease.

    The Red Bull is already the fastest car on the straights, as well as in the corners. On top of that, it appears that it gets a bigger advantage from the DRS overtaking aid than any other.

    The result was that Verstappen scorched past Hamilton on the curving 'straight' before the fast chicane at Turns Nine and 10 as if the Briton was driving a car from a different category, just as he did in Saudi Arabia two weeks ago.

    But it was after that the real gob-smacking demonstration happened. There were four corners to go to the end of that lap, and through them Verstappen pulled out a two-second advantage.

    The difference between the two cars was never as pronounced as that again. Even so, it was abundantly clear Verstappen was going only as fast as he needed to - but still he pulled out a 10-second lead.

    Russell said he believed Red Bull were deliberately hiding their true advantage.

    "For sure they're holding back," he said. "They almost embarrass the show (with) their full potential because the faster they seem globally, the more the sport is going to try to hold them back somehow. Realistically, they probably have 0.7secs over the rest of the field."

    Is this true, Horner was asked after the race? His response was very much not a denial.

    "I don't think…" he started, before pausing and then adding: "There's always an element of management that goes on in any race. Because it was a one-stop race and a very early one-stop race, of course there was an element of tyre management going on.

    "Checo (Perez, Verstappen's team-mate) wasn't hanging about and he wasn't holding back seven-tenths a lap because he didn't want to show it. The grid was a bit closer here at this venue."

    Up and down the paddock, there is widespread admiration for the remarkable job Red Bull have done with this year's car. But also confusion.

    Gaps between teams typically close up from qualifying to race, when the cars are no longer being extended to their maximum. But with this year's Red Bull it is the opposite - its advantage has seemed much more pronounced on Sundays.

    Could Horner explain, he was asked, why Red Bull's average advantage in qualifying after three races this year was just over 0.3secs, but Verstappen could pull away from Hamilton at such a remarkable rate after overtaking him?

    "Lewis made a mistake on that lap," Horner said. "But we've weighted the car towards the race rather than qualifying. So you can see there are cars which perhaps warm up their tyres a little more aggressively perhaps suffered more in the race."

    Russell and others would argue that Red Bull's advantage goes way beyond tyre degradation. This is one of the greatest cars ever produced in F1, and right now there looks to be no prospect of anyone stopping it.
     
  19. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    BBC needs to do a 2 second research and listen to Lewis' throttle and radio...he deliberately lifted.

    No doubt the RB is the fastest car but watch the 2 seconds in half a lap story pop up again before long.
     
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  20. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    It would seem that Mercedes' strategy of deliberating slowing, to make the Red Bull appear even faster, is having the desired effect in the British media ...
     
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  21. Sigmacars

    Sigmacars Formula 3
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    I agree it is going to be like NASCAR soon this is not F1 anymore more like Bumpercar racing
     
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  22. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

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    I expected the same type of passes from Perez, and I found it strange when I didn't see that. I watched several cases when Perez failed to make a pass before turn 9, around much slower cars than the Mercedes. This is part of what didn't make sense to me. How one Red Bull can drive around a Merc and have 5-10 car lengths before the corner, and the other fails to make the pass. As it turns out, Hamilton stuffed the lap on purpose. I agree with no need to push to keep up, no need to defend, RBR is for sure faster. By why go 1.5 seconds slower than what he can do and let off the throttle when Max was already gone? It doesn't make sense.
     
  23. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

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    This is exactly why I made the post with the telemetry. It is absolute BS. It was a demonstration of speed that was manufactured by Hamilton. The media, especially the British media, don't do the research and make these accusations and the fans that never do any research believe it.
     
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  24. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

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    This will be Toto's plan for anew TD to slow Redbull down as Mercedes have produced a less then winning car
     
  25. Mosin

    Mosin Formula Junior

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    when he passed and gained that time, he gained atleast 1.1 sec on every body, for that one lap ( what was left ) he was 1.1 sec faster than all ( Including Perez ). So yes, once passed LH did slow down, but it was not like he was going to catch him, RedBull gain atleast 30 kph with DRS and slip stream, adding in the extra accelation from the lack of drag in slip stream with DRS, and given LH top speed with out drs is around 300 kph and when Max went past he hit 341 kph.

    The graphs above that you your self posted also comfirm that, so does scuderiafans website https://scuderiafans.com/top-speed-analysis-at-albert-park-circuit-in-f1-2023-australian-grand-prix/

    https://www.racefans.net/2023/04/03/the-single-lap-when-verstappen-revealed-some-of-red-bulls-true-pace-in-melbourne/
     

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