2021 Formula One Season ***Possible Spoilers*** | Page 47 | FerrariChat

2021 Formula One Season ***Possible Spoilers***

Discussion in 'Australia' started by Ferraridoc, Dec 14, 2020.

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  1. psw

    psw Formula 3

    Nov 17, 2005
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    Peter
    I'm not going to get into you are wrong I am right, you have your opinion I have mine... & anyhow you despise Hamilton so he always will be at fault :p.
     
  2. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    You're still wrong. It's not opinion. I'm just starting facts.
     
  3. psw

    psw Formula 3

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    Ok, whatever you say... :D
     
  4. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 1, 2005
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    You are correct in what you say about Max.

    Worked a treat for Schumi.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
    psw likes this.
  5. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    I knew you'd make sense eventually.

    Did you see the 3D video?
     
  6. psw

    psw Formula 3

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    Yes & yes...

    You should have been a barrister Pete... my family used to say that to me, probably because I'm never wrong & always right... but with age I've learnt sometimes it doesn't matter :)
     
  7. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Good .. So you've seen that Max left room and Lewis couldn't maintain his line. Nothing to do with Max being aggressive and Lewis not backing down. Lewis made a mistake (at least I hope he didn't do it on purpose)
     
  8. psw

    psw Formula 3

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    Goodnight Pete :D
     
  9. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Hard to argue with facts.
     
  10. psw

    psw Formula 3

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    Whatever you think about the accident, no one would argue against, that it's going to really spice up the championship, the 2 title defenders at this point in the season, will be certainly going for it with full aggression :D

    As a counter to your arguments Pete, read the James Allison (biased no doubt you will say, although I say no more biased than all the Red Bull arguments).



    Mercedes insists that according to the FIA’s overtaking guide, Hamilton had the corner.

    “There was no need for him to cede any ground so I did feel that it was harsh to get the penalty,” Allison explained in Mercedes’ British GP debrief. “As far as we are concerned, the manoeuvre Lewis did was absolutely in line with the FIA’s overtaking guide.

    “If you are overtaking on the inside of the corner, then the guidance requires that you are substantially alongside as you arrive at the corner. It is not required that you are ahead.

    “Lewis was definitely substantially alongside. He had his front axle well beyond the midpoint of Verstappen’s car. And it requires that you must be able to make the corner.

    “By ‘make the corner’, it means go round the corner and not leave the track or lose control of the car. If you can go round the corner, if you are substantially alongside the other car, then the corner is yours.

    “What that means is not that you have to emerge in the lead it means that you do not have to cede your position, you do not have to back off and the other car has a duty to avoid hitting you.

    “So, if you follow the notes that are provided to the FIA stewards and you look frame by frame at what happened with Lewis, he was substantially alongside, he absolutely would have made the corner and indeed did make the corner and therefore there was no need for him to cede any ground.”

    The Mercedes’ chief technical officer added that while it may seem to outsiders who don’t know the exact rules that missing the apex meant Hamilton was in the wrong, his driver did “nothing wrong”.

    “I can understand people,” he added, “who maybe don’t understand there is no obligation on you to hit the apex of the corner, that you don’t have to have your whole car in front of the other car.

    “I can understand that, if you are seeing it from that perspective, you might think that the car coming from behind has some sort of obligation to make sure that no crashes take place. But if you look at the stewarding document then I think that Lewis did nothing wrong.”


    I'll start the debate a little earlier now, than when I'm going to bed :D oh & btw I still contend it was a racing incident ;)
     
  11. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't know how else I can say it. Max left 3.2m. He had to turn. Lewis hugged the apex every other time (it was the fastest line).

    It's not like Lewis doesn't have form running cars off from the inside like this. He did it to his team mate more than once.

    Lewis had nothing to lose and everything to gain. You're no Lewis Hamilton, but even with your experience you know exactly what would happen if you hit the other car like that. With his experience, I actually doubt it was accidental.
     
  12. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    Jun 15, 2006
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    I think it was a 50/50 racing incident, but the penalty should have been stronger. Lewis dived down the inside, lifted when he started to understeer, so Max shot ahead but turned in too soon - probably because he didn't realise Lewis was still understeering. I notice how quickly most drivers cut in after a pass and I suspect it's a tactic to upset the other car's aero and cement the overtake. From Max's position, after passing he can no longer see Lewis and it's a nanosecond decision when to start turning in. He was unlucky that Lewis' front wing cut and instantly deflated his tyre, if they had touched tyre to tyre he probably would have been OK.

    The imperative for RB after it happened was to maximise the penalty for Hamilton to reduce his points gain. e.g. A stop/go penalty would have dropped him to 2nd or 3rd (or more). That's why Horner was piling on the drama in the post race interview - he was still hoping for a bigger penalty.
     
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  13. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    I don't disagree with you, but I think you're missing the aspect of how quickly front downforce disappears when another car breaks the air flow in front of you. Lewis had no grip to turn in with.
     
  14. psw

    psw Formula 3

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    I personally don't think Lewis did it on purpose, it would always be a very risky move if intentional in the current F1 cars, with all their fragile appendages, the risk Max may have kept kept going & Lewis incurred more damage would be just as high.

    I have been pushed of a circuit from behind under brakes into a corner on the last lap of a race that I was leading, my race was over as I was bogged in the kitty litter & had a DNF, however our cars are not anywhere near as aero affected as current F1 cars & any damage sustained by the guy that pushed me off was very marginal & didn't stop him winning the race, needless to say I was pissed, but in the end I don't know if it was intentional or an accident.
     
  15. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I never believe a word Allison says

    Ferrari treated him well and all he's ever done is kick them in the nuts
     
  16. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    But Max wasn't in front of him. He was next to him.

    And, again, Max was never less than 3.2m wider than his normal line! Plenty of room for Lewis.

    Anyway.... Stewards made the ruling. Intentional or not , it worked out great for Lewis, as usual.

    If Lewis wins the title by less than 25 points, this will be remembered for a long time.
     
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  17. psw

    psw Formula 3

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    I expect everything Allison said was related to the diagram that Toto tried or did submit to the stewards, I think you can safely say it must be in the guidance/briefing rules or he wouldn't have submitted it, so I wouldn't suggest they were lies as you imply :)
     
  18. psw

    psw Formula 3

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    Now this is something I definitely concur with.
     
  19. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Not saying they are lies, just not the truth :p

    Anyway, you or I or even Horse would beat both of them in a fair fight :)

    But not Gary :p
     
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  20. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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  21. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Peter
  22. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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  23. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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