2020 Formula One Season ***Possible Spoilers*** | Page 46 | FerrariChat

2020 Formula One Season ***Possible Spoilers***

Discussion in 'Australia' started by Aircon, Dec 2, 2019.

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  1. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 World Champ
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    Aug 26, 2011
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    Add me to the list who’d be very happy to see Alonso back in F1.
    He’s fantastic.
     
  2. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Yep, same as Vettel.


    Silly signature here to annoy KIAI
     
  3. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Peter
    Very interesting

    A long interesting look at the rules as applied this weekend to LH in different incidents - https://www.autosport.com/f1/featur...y-that-saved-hamilton-from-harsher-punishment

    Lewis Hamilton has driven almost faultlessly over the past three seasons, winning 31 races, smashing Ayrton Senna's pole position record and racking up a hat-trick of world championship titles, but his performance in last weekend's Austrian Grand Prix was out of sorts and below the high standards we've come to expect. And he was fortunate things didn't turn out even worse.

    Having peerlessly topped all three practice sessions at the Red Bull Ring, Hamilton made three significant errors of judgement in the crucial moments of the weekend: exceeding track limits at the final corner on his first run in Q3; failing to slow for a stationary yellow flag/light after Mercedes team-mate Valtteri Bottas went off on the exit of Turn 4 during their final Q3 runs; then tapping Alexander Albon's Red Bull-Honda into a spin at the same corner late in the race while trying to defend second place.

    The first offence was innocuous enough - many other drivers (including this writer!) have transgressed track limits at that tricky final turn of the Red Bull Ring and paid the price: automatic deletion of your laptime, as clearly defined in the FIA's rules.

    The second offence was more serious, and although the FIA initially accepted Hamilton's argument that he'd seen mixed yellow and green signals at Turn 5 (effectively the curved exit of Turn 4), a subsequent appeal by Red Bull drew attention to onboard video footage that clearly showed Hamilton passing a yellow signal without slowing. The stewards reversed their original decision and handed Hamilton an automatic three-place grid penalty for breaching the FIA's International Sporting Code (ISC), which governs safe driver conduct.

    The third offence is debatable, but still probably the correct call. Toto Wolff argued it was a racing incident, but Hamilton seemed to be squeezing Albon to the edge of the circuit and clearly tagged the Red Bull's right-rear wheel with the Mercedes' left-front. The fact Charles Leclerc and Lando Norris navigated a similar situation at the same turn without contact - and with Norris locked up and out of control on the inside line while being overtaken, in a way Hamilton was not - weakens the argument for leniency.

    A five-second time penalty was justified (the incident ruined Albon's race completely); Hamilton cost himself a podium finish with a clumsy defensive move; let's chalk this catalogue of errors up to a rare and uncharacteristic set of misjudgements from F1's premier performer of the moment.

    But I want to go back to that second incident on Saturday, because something just doesn't sit right with me in how that ultimately played out. Analysing Hamilton's rules transgressions in Q3, it's clear he exceeded track limits on his first run at Turn 10, thus his 'banker' lap time was deleted automatically as per the rules. Fine, nothing to dispute there (whether track limits should apply at all is an entirely different debate I don't want to get into here!).

    Hamilton was subsequently found to have failed to slow properly for the single yellows triggered by Bottas going off at the exit of Turn 4/entry of Turn 5. Drivers are supposed to demonstrably slow down under such conditions, which incidentally Carlos Sainz Jr and Daniel Ricciardo, running behind Hamilton on the road in Q3, both did - they didn't lap faster than they had earlier in Q3.

    Of course, you could argue Hamilton effectively had no reference because his earlier lap was struck off, but nevertheless he set his fastest laptime of the entire weekend under yellow flag conditions in Q3, in clear breach of the regulations. The International Sporting Code stipulates an automatic three-place grid drop in such circumstances (five if the transgression is under double-waved yellows), which of course Hamilton received after Red Bull's successful appeal using footage distributed on social media by FOM on Sunday morning before the race. But what I don't understand is why the 'illegal' laptime he set at the end of Q3 is still allowed to count under the rules (the FIA did not respond to this writer's request for clarification).

    There are two relevant recent precedents here: the first is from Mexico 2019, where ]Max Verstappen was penalised three places on the grid for failing to slow sufficiently for a single yellow flag at the end of Q3 on the lap with which he set pole position. This was a silly mistake on Verstappen's part, because he'd already set a 'legal' time good enough for pole on his first run. Thus, he called for the stewards to simply delete the offending lap if they didn't like his driving.

    The only lap that counted for Hamilton in Q3 was the one he set under single waved yellows. And this was permitted to stand despite the fact it was demonstrated clearly that he hadn't slowed down for the yellow flag
    As it was, Verstappen was shown to have clearly improved his final sector time while passing Bottas' crashed Mercedes, so officials handed Verstappen a grid penalty, as per the articles laid out in the ISC. In Verstappen's case, deleting his final Q3 time would have been irrelevant, because he did two laps good enough for pole, so the grid penalty obviously made the only significant material alteration to his qualifying result. He simply should have slowed down and avoided sanction altogether because he still would have been on pole had he done so.

    After qualifying for the 2016 Hungarian GP, where Nico Rosberg set pole, Hamilton asked the FIA directly whether Rosberg's time should stand, because Hamilton's bitter rival for the championship had set his quickest second sector time while double waved yellow flags were flying to warn drivers of Fernando Alonso's spun McLaren-Honda.

    Hamilton slowed dramatically after going quickest of all in sector one and subsequently missed out on pole by 0.143 seconds; Rosberg successfully demonstrated to the FIA he'd slowed significantly enough for the yellow flags, despite also improving his sector time, so kept his overall laptime.

    Adverse weather conditions complicated matters in terms of drivers finding time on an improving circuit through the various stages of that particular session, so this is not directly analogous to what happened subsequently in Mexico and Austria, but is significant for the fact the FIA clarified the rules after Hungary 2016 to make it clear drivers should abandon laps completely if they pass double waved yellows in qualifying.

    Crucially, it seems this clarification did not apply to laptimes set while passing single yellow flags, which is how Hamilton could set a quick time in Austria last weekend despite passing a clear flagged hazard on track. Again, this doesn't sit right with me.

    In Hamilton's case, the only lap that counted for him in Q3 was the one he set under single waved yellows. And this was permitted to stand despite the fact it was demonstrated clearly that he hadn't slowed down for the yellow flag. Had this 'illegal' lap been scrubbed too, Hamilton would have ended up 10th in Q3, having set no time. He would then also have taken an automatic grid drop for disobeying the ISC rules relating to yellow flags, meaning he would have started 13th rather than fifth.

    It seems to me there is an anomaly within the current rules that potentially incentivises drivers to lap too quickly under single yellow flags, because an automatic grid drop under circumstances where the lap time still counts is clearly less severe as a punishment than also having your lap time deleted when you have no 'banker' to fall back on, as was the case for Hamilton.

    OK, the Mercedes W11 was miles ahead of the competition on this occasion, but in tighter circumstances - such as F1 hopes to achieve from 2022 onwards, or in the current midfield - backing off by even a tenth or two to comply with single yellow flags, as Ricciardo and Sainz did, can sometimes make a serious material difference to your qualifying result, perhaps more than three places...

    In this case, Hamilton could easily have given up two or three tenths, complied with the yellow flag and still qualified second, so that's on him, but I find it strange he should be allowed to keep a quicker laptime that was set while failing to follow rules that are designed specifically to stop cars going quickly and safeguard participants through hazards.

    If the rules were to stipulate faster laps set after passing single yellows are automatically deleted, as is the case with track limits offences, or should be abandoned, as is now the case with double waved yellows, there would be absolutely no incentive to chance your luck with yellow flags, because you would know you potentially face a much harsher penalty if you break the rules.
     
  4. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    TLDR, does it mean Ferrari will be WCC this year?

    If not, don't care.
     
  5. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    You should have read it.
     
  6. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    It's just politics.
     
  7. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Is it? Ok
     
  8. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I did and all it states is that Hamilton is a cant .... which I already knew :p

    Seriously, he's had preferential treatment ever since he's been in F1 ..... remember the tractor that lifted him out of the gravel years ago and then he raced on ?

    FFS, anyone else and it would have been racism
     
  9. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    No, it was rules ..... that don't seem to apply to Hamilton
     
  10. ihavearedferrari

    ihavearedferrari F1 Rookie

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    OLIO

    I'm looking forward to hearing his thoughts on Renault's 2021 GP2 engine.
     
  11. kerrari

    kerrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Karen H.
    I like Alonso also - he gave me 2/3 of my dream in 2010.... I got to see Ferrari win at Monza! Just a shame he isn't Italian to get the trifecta....
     
    PAP 348 likes this.
  12. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    It's a hole in the rules, actually.
     
  13. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    +1

    Could have had more WDCs that Hamilton and Vettel if he didn't waste his talent driving a **** car at the time.

    He would still be very competitive in a fast car, send him to Mercedes please.
     
  14. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Who?
     
  15. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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  16. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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  17. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Mercedes have now said a big fat no
     
  18. FazzerPorscheman

    FazzerPorscheman F1 World Champ

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    Piz Gloria
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    EnzoFerdinand
  19. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Well that's very unfortunate.

    I am going to give Toto a call now to discuss this.
     
  20. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Lol, I think it's legit. I read that same **** somewhere else earlier this year lol. :D
     
  21. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    I'll bet he doesn't care what you think.
     
  22. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Yeah? Well I will say "WUTYYAC". :D
     
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  23. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Nah you won't. You'll treat him like the Pope and kiss him on the ring.
     

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