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2020 Barcelona Testng: Feb. 19th - 21st & Feb. 26th - 28th

Discussion in 'F1' started by jgonzalesm6, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2004
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    Right. When (let’s call them) non-Ferrari teams challenge the “spirit” of the rules the argument is all always that it’s the letter of the rules (as written) that need to be adhered to, so good on the chaps that are clever enough to find loopholes. Case in point, the double diffuser. The intent (or spirit) of the rule limiting diffuser volume was to limit downforce as so cornering speed.

    So here Ferrari found a loophole (presumably) around a limitation for reducing fuel consumption and so power but were not found guilty or proven to have broken this rule.

    FIA’s poorly thought out limiting system (like the wording for the diffuser volume) was circumvented and they can’t get Ferrari on anything concrete so put out a weasel-word release allowing everyone to make their own conclusion and licence to label the team as cheaters.
     
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  2. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    F1 is really starting to SUCK big time!
     
  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,509
    It is rumored that the fuel flow into the Ferrari engine (long term) was Indeed strangulated to the 100 L/hr as required, but that Ferrari had found a way to feed the engine more than the 100 L/h == 27.7 mL/s for 'some' instantaneous situations. The FIA updates specification is to disallow any situation where the gas flow is greater than 27.7 mL/sec (in effect) as seen at the fuel injector itself.

    With the thermodynamic efficiencies of these little bitty power units already surpassing MegaWatt Turbocharged Diesel engines (50% TE) in Electrical Power Plants and nearing the thermal efficiencies of Gas Turbines (combined cycle: 60% TE) about the only way to get more power out is to put more fuel in.
     
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  4. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    This was all about the fuel flow hence the new sensor. Very very simple. No conspiracy but Ferrari had to alter their system. Period.
     
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  5. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    5,940
    I'm not sure that Ferrari had to change anything. I think that even maybe now they're formally allowed to keep doing what they'd been doing.

    The results of previous seasons can't be changed, even if it was discovered that you killed a grandma to win, so why they would made a statement saying: oh, everything is clear now about last years' engine.

    Unless this is FIA trying to deliberately defamate Ferrari, but I'd have to put the tin foil hat on to talk about that.
     
  6. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran

    Apr 2, 2005
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    LaCrinoid
    AFAIK Right now, F1 is a greater epic failure than the Star Wars franchise. It’s their choice. Also, If Ferrari want to continue taking the abuse of the FIA that’s their choice. I chose not to support. I don’t pay for watching races and I don’t pay to attend races any longer. I haven’t been in years and have no plans to again. This is after attending 1/2 races per year since 2012 and sporadic race attendance prior to that.
     
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  7. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula Junior

    Mar 27, 2012
    650
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    I'd assume that the private settlement and the lack of any details is because the FIA are still allowing Ferrari to do something that the other engine manufacturers have not caught on to yet. So I'd guess that they have reined Ferrari in a bit, but not completely.
     
  8. william

    william F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
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    No, the FIA is starting to SUCK big time by not having this episode in the open.
    Lack of transparency is what makes people suspicious of any governing body.
    This isn't in F1 only; other sports suffer from the same disease called secrecy.
     
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  9. 11506apollo

    11506apollo Formula 3
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    HOw is the only team ever to be fined $100,000,000 for stealing Ferrari secrets doing in Barcelona?
     
  10. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    Their British engineering hasn’t been doing all that well, without the ability to build an engine or stealing Maranello’s ideas to design next year’s car...
     
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  11. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51688538
    Formula 1: Ferrari engine investigation sparks 'anger' from rivals
     
  12. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    I wonder why Ferrari is not treated like Mercedes - officially allow for 2020 and ban for 2021, so that the temporary benefit is preserved and no one copies because it'll be banned by the time the copy is ready...
     
  13. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Pedro Braga Soares
    The only "anger " i see is from the british press, or should i say british garbage. merc and Elton have been cheating for the last 6 years and i don't see any "anger" from other teams....so just put a sock on and deal with it....i guss they are still pissed that litle mermais got his ass kicked by Charles at Monza...rubb some oignment in the ass, pretty sure it will help!
     
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  14. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    bacause Ferrari doesn't have the (fia) in their pockets...
     
  15. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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    Mar 19, 2017
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    As usual, the problems are not in the cars but in the rules. It would be better to just have no rules...make it Formula Libre...anything goes, run what you brung...and the fastest car and driver are the winners. Any engines, any designs, any aero, and configuration. Okay, one rule...the car must fit inside a rectangle of certain dimensions and cannot exceed those dimensions at anytime. Now we can sit back and watch a real spectacle. Any engine placed anywhere using any tires and wheel sizes they want, using any fuels, etc etc. Okay two rules...no refueling during the race, for safety reasons. But that would be it. Open practice as much as a team wants and can afford. The grid would be limited to 20 cars, but at each race, anyone could bring a car and try to get into the show. Qualifying would be on Friday to pick the top 20, and on Saturday to set their grid positions for the race. If a team falls out or drops out, a car would be picked from those eliminated on Friday and it would start at the back of the field. Balls to the wall racing. People might build a car and try out for just one race. If they show well, they might get sponsorship to continue to the next race or for the season...who knows. Safety would be negotiated between the driver and his car maker. You want a halo, great, you don't want one, that's okay as well. Crash regulations would be the same for all cars in terms of not having pieces flying off but how each team met those rules would be up to the teams. However if an accident occurred and the car was proven to not have met the safety specs, that team would be banned for a specific number of races and the driver and car builder would lose all their points. Blah blah blah...now we'd really have something to be talking about.
     
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  16. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    I like your style but if you read through your post you will you have set numerous rules throughout, now you have filled up page 1 in the rule book :) This is where it all begun.... page 1.
     
  17. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    British garbage........... mmmm

    that's rather insulting to many Brits on this forum, I am sure you don't mean this?
     
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  18. william

    william F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
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    Unfortunately, I think he does.
    It seems this participant has an axe to grind against the Brits.
     
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  19. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Toe Knee
    The insult was thrown at the British PRESS aka SKY/BBC/ETC.

    :rolleyes:
     
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  20. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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    Didn't they burn down the White House in 1812 or abouts?
     
  21. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Toe Knee
    CNN? :p
     
  22. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Karting

    May 25, 2019
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    Jim
    Yeah, because there's absolutely no anti-Ferrari bias in the British press. :rolleyes:
     
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  23. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    I think Binotto knows with the new set up of their motor, unable to produce the same power given the 'settlement', the additional aero drag etc. To fight they needed downforce to aid in slow speed corners to compete with Mercedes and Red Bull. They have not got the set up/balance correct. The car is better in the corners, with understeer yet and slow on the straights with the new/altered PU.
     
  24. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    What we've learned from the second F1 test
    From a congested midfield fight to the games F1's big hitters are playing, plus what the current coronavirus epidemic means for the championship, here are our reporters' key findings from the second week of pre-season testing - https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/9935/what-weve-learned-from-the-second-f1-test


    Mercedes ended the first Formula 1 test of 2020 as the clear 'winner', and it appears to have retained its position at the head of the pack after the second three days of running at Barcelona.

    The reigning champion squad topped the test two times with Valtteri Bottas's 1m16.196s on the softest C5 tyres on the final afternoon - although that was 0.464 seconds slower than the Finn went on his way to the fastest time in test one on the same compound.

    There are several question marks hanging over the testing performance of Mercedes' nearest rivals, Red Bull and Ferrari, but there's little to suggest the team has lost its place at the head of the pecking order.

    One of the strengths Mercedes enjoyed in 2019 was considerable superiority in slow-speed corners, and the W11's performance in the final sector at Barcelona suggests that advantage remains, as Bottas made up plenty of time as the lap went on as he flew to the top of the test two times.

    But reliability is a major concern for Mercedes, which had to swap engines twice over the course of the two tests following dramas, with customer squad Williams also running into power unit problems.

    "It was a difficult winter last year, and I think it's been a difficult winter this year," said Lewis Hamilton on the final day of testing. "There was a period of time with this V6 turbo where we were just gaining and gaining but eventually with everything you get to the point with limited returns [on] how much more can you squeeze out of the V6 turbo.

    "How much further can you go? We are kind of in that peak top speed area now, where there is a kilometre more or a kilometre less you are gaining, for a lot of investment."

    Red Bull is the big unknown -

    Red Bull ended up with the second-fastest time across the two tests, but there are significant questions about its real potential.

    For a start, Max Verstappen's 1m16.269s was set on the C4 rubber - so there is the possibility he could have gone at least half a second faster - and Red Bull also did not seem to do that much long running throughout testing. But the RB16 nevertheless looks firmly planted on track, and could yet prove to be a close challenger for Mercedes' W11.

    Team principal Christian Horner and Max Verstappen certainly seemed relaxed about the outfit's prospects when speaking at an official press conference on Friday.

    "It's been a pretty positive pre-season for us," said Horner. "We did plenty of mileage last week. This week we've been focusing on some development bits and pieces. But generally, it's been a very positive experience."

    Verstappen and Alex Albon - who did not trouble the top of the overall times, as he ended up down in P19 but with a best time set on the much harder C2 tyres - did have several spins and off-track excursions, but the team seemed unconcerned and Verstappen attributed this to finding the limit.

    The top three teams have retained their advantage, unsurprisingly, but it could well be that Red Bull has edged ahead of Ferrari during the off-season.

    Ferrari still feels it's in trouble -

    After an understated opening week in which Ferrari played down its chances of matching the pace shown by Mercedes and Red Bull, most anticipated the second test to yield a major step forward for the Italian team.

    But it never arrived. There was no Mercedes-style turnaround from 2019. No major update package. Perhaps Ferrari had not been bluffing about its pace all along. Maybe this was it.

    Sebastian Vettel and Charles Leclerc both completed qualifying runs on the softest compound, the C5, in their final full days in the car. Yet neither could bother the benchmark of 1m15.732s set by Mercedes rival Valtteri Bottas in the opening week.

    Vettel's time was a full 1.1s off, while Leclerc still sat six tenths of a second adrift after a mammoth final day during which he completed 181 laps - close to three race distances.

    Both Vettel and Leclerc have reported that while the Ferrari SF1000 feels stronger through the corners than its predecessor, it is now lacking on the straights and is "draggy".

    Bottas said he did not read too much into those comments given the 'weird games' teams often play in pre-season testing - but in private, Ferrari's rivals have changed their thinking after crunching the numbers from the long run pace Ferrari showed on the penultimate day.

    Unless Ferrari has produced one of the finest bluffs in recent years, it heads to Australia on the back foot. And by some way.

    Drag is not Ferrari's only problem -
    Ben Anderson, GP Racing Editor @BenAndersonF1

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    Sebastian Vettel says the new Ferrari is too draggy, which created a straightline speed deficit to Mercedes in testing, but that's not the only problem the Scuderia has with its latest chassis.

    Watching the car from trackside on Wednesday and Thursday afternoons, it was clear the front end was creating trouble for Vettel and his team-mate Charles Leclerc.

    Max Verstappen's Red Bull-Honda looked absolutely painted to the road through the medium-speed esses of Turns 7 and 8, Verstappen insanely late on the brakes and super early back on the throttle. Valtteri Bottas was achieving similar things with the Mercedes, just not with quite so much ease.

    But whenever Leclerc came through this section the Ferrari simply refused to comply. The entry was fine, but the front end gave up grip every time he re-applied the throttle, forcing him wide.

    A similar trait reared its head wherever I watched from. On Thursday, Vettel was struggling to get turned in properly at Turn 4 and was always making a wider arc through the tight left-hander of Turn 5 while chasing Lewis Hamilton before the Mercedes broke down.

    Vettel was apparently complaining of understeer during week one, and given this car behaviour was still apparent towards the end of day five it would seem Ferrari was struggling to dial that out.

    Regardless of the supposed mind games going on between the top teams concerning fuel loads and engine modes, it certainly looks as though Ferrari is currently behind Red Bull and Mercedes in terms of chassis performance.

    Suggestions Ferrari might even struggle to beat Racing Point seem wide of the mark to me, though. The 'Pink Mercedes' is nevertheless probably the pick of an incredibly tight midfield pack in terms of overall pace, though I was also impressed with the behaviour of the AlphaTauri (though the Honda engines appeared to be running in a conservative mode) and the McLaren's prowess through the medium-speed esses.

    The Williams is certainly better than last year's version in terms of consistency and driveability, but looks as though it still clearly lacks overall downforce compared to the other midfield runners.


































     
  25. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    How far do you want to go back - lets talk about, the vikings, the romans, Napolean, the nazi's or even the mongol conquests, lets not forget the slaughter of the red indians too.

    History has some terrible attocities from before the birth of christ and beyond.
     
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