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2020 Barcelona Testng: Feb. 19th - 21st & Feb. 26th - 28th

Discussion in 'F1' started by jgonzalesm6, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. EmreT

    EmreT Rookie

    Oct 15, 2018
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    Why does everything go superb for Mercedes? I mean what does Mercedes have that Ferrari doesn't? Money, structure, power, brain? It has been six years of success for one side and failure for the other. Why?
     
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  2. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    #327 TifosiUSA, Feb 21, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
    So?

    For example Webber was beaten in the standings by other cars some years during Seb's run. Seb won 13 races in 2013 (all time single season record) and Webber in the same Red Bull was beaten by Alonso in the standings. Must mean the Ferrari was better than Red Bull that year! Derp.

    You can't compare the #1 driver (Vettel) to the #2 driver (Bottas) and declare the Ferrari was the better car. That's not how it works. Bottas destroyed Kimi in 2017 & was more than 2 full race wins clear in the points standings over the Ferraris and max last year.

    You honestly believe Ferrari had the fastest car in 2017 and 2018? Laughable.

    Again, Bottas absolutely destroyed Kimi in the standings in 2017. The Ferrari was only better on tight twisty circuits like Monaco and Hungary due to its short wheelbase and lack of a need for outright HP. How many poles did Ferrari have in 2017 vs. Mercedes? Nuff said. The Mercedes still had a big power advantage and their aero/longer wheelbase made them faster everywhere but very specific tracks. 2018 Ferrari got closer but the Mercedes was still the faster car overall. Last year they lost ground again and Merc was easily the best car.
     
  3. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 Veteran
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  4. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    So basically you are saying, Senna, Schumi, did not deserve the championships the years they had the best car? You saying the reason Schumi won is because of his team mates mediocrity, not his skills? Senna spent the majority of his career in the best car, are you saying he greatness is lessened because of this?
    Bottas was undefeated as team mate his first 4 years in F1 by the way
     
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  5. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

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    The race simulations don’t lie. Merc are a country mile ahead. :(
     
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  6. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    All this above with an effective organization to take advantage of it with little respect to blame if something does not go well, it appears. Total performance focus I think.
     
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  7. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    My point was Ferrari had a championship winning car those years, they lead the championship first part of the season. Mercedes needed Hamilton those 2 years to achieve the championship as Bottas got beat. Giving proof that it also takes a great driver to win in the best car.
     
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  8. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Never said it didn't only that he has had the best car. LH is obviously great but he's had great equipment since he plopped down day 1 in a McLaren that would have won the WDC if not for a giant choke job
     
  9. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Umm, no, never said any of that. Just find it funny how defensive you get when its said Lewis has driven better cars over the course of his career than anyone. Why does that fact annoy you so much? :)

    Against heavyweights Maldonado and borderline retired Massa
     
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  10. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    We can hope next week Ferrari have this message as Mercedes does. Im assuming Ferrari will open the car up and provide an idea of its capability......

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51587920

    There is no reason to believe Mercedes have changed their approach to pre-season - so to see Bottas and Hamilton sitting so convincingly at the top of the times is a worrying sign for their rivals.

    Bottas said the car was doing exactly what the drivers wanted.

    "The main improvements are the stability we've had with the car," he said. "Actually the rear end of the car feels really stable and makes it very drivable.

    "I would say the balance through the entire speed range, from high to low-speed corners, is more together than in last year's car. That's what we were aiming for and I don't want to say much more about it. At the moment we have found no negatives compared to last year yet and that's positive."
     
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  11. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Annoyed? Lol. Dude, I been watching Ham since his rookie year when he beat Alonso and the year after when he won the championship. I knew then he was a great, regardless of whatever car he drove. Plus countless F1 drivers that echo me that say he is a great. So no reason for me to be annoyed about anything. So back to my question, both Senna and Schumi spent the majority of their career in the best car, is their greatness lesser for it?
     
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  12. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

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    Looks like Ferrari have a better car than Haas and Williams. So, it could be worse.
     
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  13. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Senna and Schumacher spent MUCH less of their careers in the best car and also had to work their way into a top team. Hamilton sat in a WDC capable machine from day 1.

    I said Hamilton was great and I think he is one of the best drivers on the grid, but he has been flattered by his equipment. Couldn't mount a title challenge in 2010/2011/2012 in McLarens that were all title capable and was actually beaten on points by Button during their time together. I haven't seen him drag an obvious lesser car to the brink of a title like MSC in 97/98 or Alonso in 2010/12.
     
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  14. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    this is starting to look bleak. ferrari really cocked this up
     
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  15. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Potentially but also the issues they may have could be easily remedied as well. The lack of knowledge here is the issue for all of us. Lets hope they have a set of quick solutions that can be applied after Melbourne. Also an upgrade in Melbourne might surprise. As always they will say its a 'long season' lol :)
     
  16. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51587920

    Concern for Ferrari?
    The signs coming out of Ferrari were not good from the very start of the test.

    While Mercedes hit the ground running, the red cars were not doing anything like the same pace. And the impression that they were struggling was confirmed by team boss Mattia Binotto on Friday.

    "The others are faster than us at the moment, I believe," Binotto said. "How much faster I think it's really difficult to judge and we'll go through all the data in the next days, but I don't think we are as fast as them at the moment.

    "Do we have any concerns? Certainly, yes, when you are not as fast as you would like to be. I've seen certainly Mercedes, and Red Bull, very fast in these first days."

    Binotto admitted he was "not as optimistic as last year". But the caveat here is that Ferrari's optimism was misplaced in 2019.

    They - and Mercedes, too, it has to be said - left Spain last year believing that the Italian cars had an advantage over the field, only to find when they arrived in Australia that in fact Mercedes were in front and Ferrari lagging well behind.

    As a result of that, Ferrari have changed their approach to testing this year, deciding to spend this first week fully understanding the car before exploring its performance at next week's second test.

    But Binotto said he had concerns that if they had gone for performance this week, it would not have been there.

    He said that last year "the lap time was easier to find", adding: "While it is true we did not focus on set-up work or performance, it seems it is more difficult. The competitors apparently are very strong but we should not forget the story of last year and let's wait until next week and Australia to better understand the true picture."
     
  17. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

    May 30, 2012
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    All great champions legacy are gonna look different. Did Senna or Shumi beat a 2 time champion their rookie year? No. Did Schumi ever beat a champion team mate as Lewis did twice? No. But Schumi is still great. The greats careers are gonna look different, we can't change that. All of the stats you mention above is known by multiple F1 drivers, yet after looking at Ham's whole career they still say he is among the greatest.
     
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  18. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula 3
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  19. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Schumi stepped into a car he hadn't driven all year and beat a 3x WDC teammate who HAD driven it all year in his first race with the team. Beat Senna on points his first full year in F1.

    But that's not what we were talking about.
     
  20. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    ill hold out hope

    sometimes Melbourne isn't exactly representative of the true running order. it its a weird track that leads to some strange results
     
  21. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3

    British excellence.....

    Marketed as being German
     
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  22. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula 3
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    Kind of like Bentley and Rolls-Royce . . . but different?
     
  23. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

    May 30, 2012
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    Yeah Schumi second year was good, he was really good early on. For the record Schumi never outscored or even had a champion team mate a full year. As I said they will be different.
     

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