2019 24 Hours of LeMans | Page 10 | FerrariChat

2019 24 Hours of LeMans

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by jgonzalesm6, Apr 16, 2019.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Le Mans has a long history of spoiling the resuls by inflicting post-race penalties.
    The scrutineering is supposed to be done before the race, not after.
    I don't know how they compare with other race organisers, but for many years we had these types of incidents
     
  2. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
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    There is a scruteneering before the race but many factors can not be controlled after the car has left the scruteneering garage. if you do the scruteneering before the race nobody can touch the car anymore, basically you need to have a pre race parc ferme... otherwise you never know if the car was legal or not. This post race disqualifications are very annoying and just because your fueltank has a 0.1ltr higher capacity you dont win Le Mans. But where is the line? if you accept 0.1 you need to accept 0.2? ACO Scruteneering is very strict and sometimes a pain in the ass but as a racing driver who spends lots and lots of money I'm quite happy that it seems to be fair.... Not a long time ago I raced against a competitor and on a specific circuit I could not follow the him, no matter what I did. Usually I'm 1-2 sec faster.... So I drove my ass off.... Post race Scrutineering found constantly overboosting and disqualified the other Car... so if you scruteneer the car before the race you need to make sure that nobody can plug in a laptop or whatever... and thats a bit difficult. so thats why we have the parc ferme after the race.

    we also had once that ACO Scruteneering showed up at the pre grid to take some fuel samples right out of some other cars...
     
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  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Maybe they shouldn't have the podium ceremony at the end of the race then?
    The public feels cheated when the crew they applauded is disqualified for a technical infringement.
    Also, if you are declared the winner a few days later, it's not the same.
    For example, how the sponsors of a car finishing 2nd on the track can exploit the victory of their car a couple of days later?
    It's very frustrating.

    In the case of Ganassi, I just can't believe they could have been so casual at to the exact capacity of their fuel bladder. Don't they check that?
     
  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #229 william, Jun 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
    Sorry to come back to that issue, but I remember instances where the scrutineers didn't do their job properly at Le Mans, and then disqualified cars.

    TWR entered 2 factory-supported Jaguar XK220s that passed scrutineering and went on to win their category, only to be disqualified for not being fitted with catalytic exhausts. Walkinshaw appealed against the disqualification on the ground that these catalytic exhausts were not compulsory in the IMSA category, but lost the appeal. The missing catalytic exhausts were not spotted by the officials during scrutineering.

    The GTC case is an other example of the ACO scrutineers being incompetent sometimes. Harvey Cluxton, from Phoenix Arizona, entered once a single Mirage-Ford (based on a Tiga chassis) for Mario and Michael Andretti. The car passed scrutineering without any problem and was one of the favourites, only to be deemed illegal as it was pushed on the starting grid!! The scrutineers had suddenly (?) noticed the location of the oil cooler which, they claimed, was in a prohibited location (on the gearbox and therefore behind the rear axle). That was never objected to during scrutineering.

    I could go on and on about the incidents at Le Mans, often brought by incompetence, politics or ... bribery. Colin Chapman of Lotus fame, had a lot to grumble about the shenanigans at Le Mans.
     
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  5. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    I joked in a Facebook group that maybe Le Mans should have a 24 hour tape delay since it will take that long to figure out the winner anyway. Just wait to hold the ceremony till after the technical inspections are done. lol

    I don't think anyone is saying that teams shouldn't be punished if they break the rules. I think the hard part is there are so many rules. You can mandate everything, but at some point it becomes impossible to get every thing 100% right. So my question is, do things like max stint lengths, min refueling times, etc really add anything to the show?

    In the 2018 Daytona 24 the Land Motorsports Audi was consistently refueling faster than IMSA expected, and they were penalized mid way through the race. If the Keating Ford was consistently refueling .6 seconds faster for the entire race, why couldn't the issue have been brought up mid race and addressed then, instead of after the race. The fuel capacity is a different issue and I get that it can't be checked mid race.
     
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  6. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    They said the rubber bladder expanded over the duration of the race and they built in no room for error to avoid that. And they said their refueling rig became more efficient over time too...
     
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  7. the_stig

    the_stig F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2005
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    I believe that the appeal was denied on the basis that it was not filed in time, not that the basis of the appeal was incorrect - which it wasn't. The final ruling was made, I think, as late as September or October!

    There is a supposition that the bladder had a fold or wrinkle that gave it a 96 liter capacity pre-race and a 96.4 liter capacity post race.
     
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  8. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    OK, but why was the absence of catalytic exhausts on the Jaguars not notified to TWR by the scrutineers BEFORE the race, instead of AFTER the race.
    I think that smells incompetence at best, or malicious intent at worst.
    I follow Le Mans since1963, and I have seen plenty of shenanigans like this over the years.
     
  9. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    There was an interesting discussion on Midweek Motorsport on weighing the fuel vs measuring the volume with the theory that it expands and contracts based on temp, altitude, etc..
     
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  10. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

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    Someone thought about this ? How did that happen? Fuel packing was quite popular during the 70's. I hope some French official would have taken this into account when the original inspection was done vs the post race inspection. Radio LeMans stated that the Monday following the race was going to be quite warm for the travel home. 10 degrees can be make all the difference.
     
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  11. Absolutely. Ask the "Captain" (Rogere) about his iced down refueling rigs in the T/A days... :D
     
  12. So true. It "huffs and it puffs" 'til the tank expands.... :p :D (Yeah, I stole it....)
     
  13. I still don't mind Tony Kanaan.....:p :)
    (I know, I know....you really meant Tommy Kendall..... :rolleyes:)
     
  14. I believe I did too (way earlier, not this thread). It already has.... :(
     
  15. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    I like all 3 ;)
     
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  16. I can top that....I like all drivers and teams as I have always loved (with a passion) auto racing, period. ;)
     
  17. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

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    Ah...yes!!!! Dry ice does wonders for decreasing the molecular structure of liquid hydrocarbons. While the sun does an exceptional job of expanding aluminum containers. Add the two together and you get several more laps free of charge!
     
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  18. #243 lorenzobandini, Jul 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
    ;)

    (edit: 'Gave a good little boost for a bit on intercoolers on intercooled turbo'd cars too.... :))
     

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