2018 BMW i3 long term review | FerrariChat

2018 BMW i3 long term review

Discussion in 'Other German' started by Nurburgringer, Jul 4, 2018.

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  1. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    11,154
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    About 6 months ago I cancelled my reservation for a Tesla 3. Was somewhere around 100k in line, and had been waiting 2 years for the $35k version to be released when the timing chain guides failed on my DD '01 740. Decided to put the money towards a new DD (2012 328 wagon) and repair of the 740 (currently on hiatus about 1/2 way through the job in my garage due to a hand injury).
    Then last month I drove a friend's 2015 i3 and had to have one.
    The outside looks neat but the driving experience and interior design are what really struck me as different, in a great way. Comfortable seating position and ride, giggle-inducing acceleration, nimble handling (rear engine, low CoG), and visually stunning interior. Unlike the 5-sp auto in my E38 or E39 I'd never completely warmed to the 6-sp auto trans in my 328 so the i3's smooth, seamless power from rest to extra-legal speeds was as revelation.
    Plus the exotic, forward thinking carbon fiber construction, light weight (~2900lbs), practical hatch-back design, and small-outside/big-inside layout appealed more than the T3's more conventional sedan design.
    So began the number crunching: buying or leasing new with a ~$50k MSRP vs buying one of the <30k mile 2015's coming off lease (most in TX are being trucked in from CA) for ~$20k.
    Test drove a 2015 "REX" (2-cylinder, 650CC BMW scooter motor driving a generator for ~70 miles of extra range, at the cost of ~275lbs extra weight and a couple thousand bucks), which would be virtually required on a 2015.
    In 2017 the battery pack was upgraded to 33kWh from 22 so for my twice-weekly 60-70 mile commute a newer "BEV" (battery only) would do the trick, with a ~125 mile range vs ~75 mile on an aging 2015 pack (can check the actual battery capacity ).
    There are a TON of incentives when buying or leasing a new i3: My company has a fleet arrangement worth $10k when buying, or just $500 for leases. Plus the $7500 fed credit. Plus $2000 BMW loyalty. Plus $1000 for entering a BMW sweepstakes for a trip to Japan (OL code). Plus $2500 from TX. Plus $1000 for joining BMWCCA for 1 yr ($135 cost). **** adds up. On the lease side BMW uses a ridiculous 58% residual (i.e. ~$30k) after 3 years, when they'll likely be worth 20ish.
    Got appraisals on my trade in from $13-$16k (owed $18k thanks to 0 down and rolling taxes into the loan) from local BMW dealers/Carmax/TX Auto Direct (HUGE used dealer here that always has about five i3s).
    Then started negotiating with BMW of Dallas that had a loaded, red 2018 BEV sitting on their lot for 4 months.
    Being the end of the month helped to get them up to $17.5k on my trade, with a $5k discount off the $54k MRSP (every option except for 20" wheels and REX). Was still like pulling teeth to get the MF and all other fees from them... but eventually wore them down. Used leasehackr's forum and calculator to confirm I was getting a fair deal.
    With zero down and all the incentives the 36/10 lease come to $340/month incl taxes (considers $3350 cash back from TX and BMWCCA that I just sent in the paperwork for). In other states you can do significantly better, but TX isn't the most lease-friendly place, I had my trade-in to consider, and there just aren't that many i3s to chose from around here so please don't rub it in too much if you got one for $100/month :)
    Looking at actual depreciation of buying a 2015 or 2018 leasing compared favorably so I went for it, my first lease.
    The only issue was getting the car from Dallas to Houston, a 265 mile drive with an expected 115 mile range to be conservative. Turned out to be even a little less, thanks to fighting a steady 20mph+ headwind most of the way and going 75mph most of the way... once up to 93 to confirm the published top speed, purely for scientific purposes of course. :)
    Plotted a course on the excellent Plugshare.com app to hit one level 3 and three level 2 charges and drove the 328 up last Friday night. Painting some bumper rash and cleaning it well inside and out turned out to be a waste of time since the dealer only did a quick walk around and checked the miles...
    Got done with the paperwork at noon and hit the road with 95% battery charge.
    First top just outside Dallas to top off the pack at a Cracker Barrel with an EVGO Level 4 (440V DC fast charger) was a bust when the charger didn't work and a phone call confirmed it needed a service tech.
    So needed an extra hour or charge at the next stop in Waxahachie's level 2 charger at a nice coffee house. Which was fine, since walking around this cool little town for a few hours was very enjoyable. Biker shop, museum, classic burger shack, etc.
    Then down to Waco for 4 hours on a Level 2 charger (also no fee) in front a Holiday Inn. Couple hours talking to locals at a nearby Saltgrass grill, and internet surfing in the hotel lobby ate up that time.
    Was midnight by the time I covered the next 90 mile leg to College Station, so plugged in at a Hilton Garden (free level 2 charger) and got some sleep.
    Then only 70 miles drive the next morning home.
    Now that it's here I don't expect to charge it anyway but in my garage. Will install a 240 outlet and get either a Siemens or Clipper Creek level two charger, since the ~1.2kW 110V level one charger that comes with the car take about 24 hours to charge from empty. A 24A or 32A level two will do it in under 5 hours. Plus the gov subsidizes 30% of the charger and garage wiring cost.
    So after about 400 miles driving I'm totally loving it. Adaptive cruise control is awesome, as is the regen braking. Yesterday over 30 miles driving I used the brake pedal less than 5 times, only because I slightly misjudged a stop sign or traffic light.
    The Harmon Kardon sound system is excellent, and audio for phone calls is superb.
    I really like iDrive and the physical buttons (8 are programmable for whatever you want) vs all-touchscreen in Teslas. The nav system has up-to-date charging stations if I need them, and a cool range-map that shows theoretical driving limits on current charge.
    Have ordered a cell phone mount that goes in a cupholder, since it doesn't have Android Auto (just apply carplay, boooo!) or wireless charging (boo).
    AC system is fine, coping well with the 100F temps we've had.
    So far I'm averaging ~4miles/kWhr. When getting on it or doing 80mph+ this drops down into the low 3s, but driving rationally it's not hard to exceed 4 which I don't think any other EV can touch.
    Very much looking forward to putting close to 30k miles on her over the next 36 months. Any questions from those interested in these feel free to ask.
    Safe and happy travels!
    Kurt

    2018 i3 BEV
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    Route from Dallas to Houston:
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    "Tera World" leather interior. If speccing myself would have gone for the lighter "Giga" but this is quite luxurious

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    Sunroof adds light and extra ventilation if needed:
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    Waxahachie courthouse circa 1893:
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    Charging at Holiday Inn, Waco:
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    Hwy 6 to College Station, with headwind using as much juice as going 90+
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    Charging overnight at Hilton in College Station
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    Nav system showing range in "EcoPlus" mode (softens acceleration a little, max 75mph) or "EcoPlus+" (55mph max and no AC so I didn't use this)
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  2. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    edit to above: the EVGO 440Vers are considered level THREE chargers, not level 4.
    Did successfully use one at a Cracker Barrel in Houston on Monday, and it's amazing... had lunch and 45 minutes later had gone from 20 miles range to 130 (28 kWhr) for $12 @ $0.25/minute. If you pay $10/month to EVGO this drops to 0.15/minute, and most of the charging takes place in the first 30 minutes so despite the speed still comes out significantly cheaper than gas for my 328.
    Forgot to mention that insurance is costing me $1050/yr vs $750/yr for the 328 (seems like it should be even more, due to age and exotic construction), which is just about covered by the fuel savings I'm expecting. Plus some maintenance savings since there are no oil changes, virtually never need to do the brakes, tires last and cost about the same, etc.

    The dash and accent lighting look great at night with BMW's "Classic" orange option:
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    A little gimmicky but fun to check mi/kW rolling average, and how much you've harvested by regen:
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  3. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    cool. nice write-up.
    dont they come with an IC engine too?

    i have had a great experience with the fisker - largely because i dont have to wait around a charging station when going from dallas to houston - takes me roughly 3 hours, give or take depending on traffic - because of the IC boost.

    i dont know if you could have gotten a better deal on an i3, but i can tell you that for $40-45 k, you can get a nearly perfect fisker...... ;)
     
  4. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
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    Yes that's the "range extender" or "REX" option. Basically a gas powered, 2-cylinder genset next to the electric motor between the rear wheels, w/ a 2 gallon tank that adds about 70 miles range.
    130ish miles on the 33kwh battery (29.9 usable) alone is plenty for me so didn't want or need the added weight and complexity.

    Now that I have the i3 home don't ever expect to need to charge it on the road. It's purely for commuting and around-town errands.
    For roadtrips we'll take the good old minivan.
    Can return it to a local BMW dealer at lease end.

    What's the battery size in your Fisker?
    Has it been trouble-free?
    How many miles have you put on, out of how many total?
    What kind of charger do you use at home?

    I hadn't looked into Fiskers at all. Saw one on the road last year and they do look amazing, but for me the i3's hatchback layout and overall "BMW-ness" appealed more than the admittedly attractive speed and range of Teslas (second hand model Ss are also down around 40k now) or Fiskers.

    Maybe I'll see you at Cars and Coffee sometime. If we can both call truce and put aside politics for a bit would be fun to compare EVs ;)
    cheers
    Kurt
     
  5. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #5 Nurburgringer, Jul 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
    Carbon fiber occupant shell, manufactured in Leipzig with carbon fiber from Washington state:
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    600lbs of Samsung batteries underneath (33kWhr pack in 2017/2018 i3s supposedly being upgraded to 44kWhr later this year)
    https://insideevs.com/lets-look-at-the-specs-of-the-samsung-sdi-94-ah-battery/
    Motor and fixed ratio, speed reducing gearbox driving rear wheels

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    Right after plugging into a 440V level 3 charger at Cracker Barrel over lunchtime on Monday. Fully charged when we came out 46 minutes later. Should have gone out after 25 minutes, these level 3 stations charge VERY faster initially then slow way down above ~80% to prevent overcharging. Didn't need it fully charged so paid too much for the last 20 minutes since the fee was per minute.
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  6. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

  7. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
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    The IC engine (REX) is actually a genset to power the drive motor. Enough to maintain ~70mph.
    The problems with it:
    1) fairly noisy, although not very noticeable on the highway
    2) adds weight, cost, maintenance
    3) in Europe they have a "State of Charge" hold where you can manually activate the REX below 75% battery charge, so you'll have the juice for >70mph, up hills, fast acceleration etc and it can tap into the battery. In the US for some reason the REX only kicks in when battery capacity is at 6%, so if you've got a highway trip once that 6% is used up your speed and acceleration will be limited by the REX output. Not the end of the world, and for ~$150 you can flash the computer to allow Europe-spec REX activation when you want to.
    AFAIK there's no choice in fuel tank size. They all have 2.4 gallon tanks but until 2017 US US i3s were software limited to using only 1.9 gallons due to regulation that an "EV" couldn't travel further on gas than batteries. Also hackable.
    Since the 33kWhr pack came out in 2017 that isn't an issue and US i3s can use the full 2.4 gallons like the rest of the world.

    Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if BMW doesn't make a true successor to the i3. I'm sure they lose money on every one (and make bucks on the i8, which no way costs 3x as much to manufacture).
    It was an R&D exercise. They radically improved time and cost of making big carbon fiber parts. Got tons of real-world info on battery tech.
    More like a concept car available to the public. Nothing like Tesla or Chevy EV volume but over 100k of them have hit the road:
    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-i3-production-hits-100000-units-i8-roadster-to-be-made-in-leipzig-121359.html
     
  8. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
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    If anyone is comparing model years, this is what I learned:
    2014/15/16: beside the smaller battery pack and some different color options (awesome and fairly rare "Solar Orange" discontinued for 2018 replaced with red and a searing blue, other boring shades of grey/black/silver came and went) the main differences for me:
    1) rearview camera came as part of the $800 parking package option, which also brought parking sensors on front and rear bumpers, and self-parking which I wouldn't miss as much as the rearview cam.
    The excellent adaptive cruise control came with the $2500 tech package.
    I found surprisingly few that had both.
    In 2017 (I think, def 2018) all came standard with rearview cam.

    That's about it.

    The regen system and adaptive cruise were supposedly tweaked a couple times, but the 2015 I drove felt fine. The 2018 feels, if anything, finer.
    My 2018 has power folding mirrors which is nice I guess, but it's a narrow car anyway.

    In 2018 the i3s was introduced with a firmer suspension and little more power and 100mph vmax (vs 93). Almost everything I read said these ride too firmly, and dealers don't appear to be discounting these at all (yet).

    Things I wish it had: vented seats, larger display for defrost/vent/floor HVAC setting, wireless phone charging, Android Auto, convex side mirrors (will add stick on ones), blind spot monitoring (strange that this isn't available at all, but I have managed to not change lanes into anyone for 30 years without it), "traffic jam assist" that steers as well as controls speed (which the ROW gets).
    All relatively minor complaints.
    BMW got the big things right.
     
  9. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    the government, in their stupidity, imposes a lot of suboptimal restrictions through the software. happened on the fisker as well.
    the fisker has 15 HV batteries that run through the central tunnel of the car, and need to be kept in balance within 30 mv of each other - which is a source for many of the usual issues with this car. but they weigh about 800 pounds in total, and therefore make up a big chunk of the 5300 pound total weight.

    the original software allowed the IC engine to come on whenever you wanted to, and keep a SOC up to 45 miles range. but the govt blocked that and now the IC can be kicked in any time but the range can only be maintained at 27 miles, and the IC is not allowed to bring the battery up higher than that - you must plug in somewhere.

    the original engineer from fisker has set up his own shop, and now offers a CIU that allows the IC to recharge the battery from any level up to 45 miles range, and also has a few other neat features, and when paired with the higher amperage main fuse, boosts the BHP by about 40-50. i have the fuse on now as a safety measure, and intend to get the uprated CIU in a few months, so i will have about 450bhp, which should yield a 0-60 time of closer to 5 seconds in sport mode.

    the fisker has multiple different drive and regen modes, and it took me a couple weeks to figure out which were best for my purposes.
    this car is not made to be a practical car - it is the epitome of form over function !

    the analogy i described to a guy at the last cars and coffee who was comparing it to a tesla is that a tesla is the woman who is a 7/10 and can really cook well, whereas the fisker is the super model who is over to the right of the crazy scale and cannot cook more than a sandwich.
     
  10. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
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    well the Government had to draw the line on elec vs gas range somewhere, otherwise any car could claim to be "electric" and collect the current incentives simply because it can move 5 feet by cranking it's starter motor ;)
    Putting the line where electric range meets or exceeds gas range seems pretty reasonable to me.

    From wiki your Karma has a "20.1 kWh lithium ion battery supplied by A123 Systems and/or an engine powered generator", so it works very similarly to the i3 with REX. Claims the all-electric range is ~32miles vs my i3's ~130 mile range from a battery with only 50% larger capacity. Must largely be due to the Karma being almost twice as heavy overall.

    Took another 3 coworkers to lunch today which makes 14 passengers total (none had ever been in an EV before except for one that had a Tesla taxi ride in Stockholm) and all have come away amazed and impressed with the smoothness, interior space and design, and acceleration.
     
  11. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    Hadn't seen this Smoking Tire drive in a 2014 BEV i3. Matt really enjoys it, only real complaint is the range which was significantly improved in 2017:



    Lucky break at 6:25 :/
     
  12. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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  13. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

  14. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Next time take it to Texas Direct. They beat everybody.
     
  15. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    I did - they would have given me $15,000 cash for my 328 whether or not I bought a car there.
    Amazing place. Sales guy said they sell on average of 75 cars per day.
     
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  16. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    Nothing t'all.
    What else would you like to know about the i3? :)

    It's been plugged into the included 110V charger for close to 24hours now, with a grand total of 35 miles of range added.
    Had to reduce the 110V charging power through iDrive to "Medium" (1.2kW, where it was set as default) from high (1.8kW, or about the same as a high power hair dryer) because it started to melt the outlet.
    Can't wait for the Clipper Creek 24A 240V charger to arrive.
    Expensive for what it is but the Siemens Versicharger requires a 40 or 50A line and uses an old-style, 3-wire NEMA 6-50 plug. Plus CC's are made in the USA and have excellent reliability and customer service. And I'll get 30% back via tax credit.
    https://store.clippercreek.com/residential/lcs-30p-nema-14-30
    Got one quote to install a 30A 240V outlet in the garage about 20' from the break box. If it took longer than an hour to do they'd have to **** something up.
    Price: $1250. Or $1350 for 50A.
    Told him they must be joking.
    Bought 30' of 8-3 wire (a little bigger to be on the safe side), 30A breaker, NEMA 14-30 recepticle and double gang box for $125 from Lowes and will do it myself.
     
  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    They turn their 2,500 car inventory just about every month.
     
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  18. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    I had looked at this one: https://www.texasdirectauto.com/for-sale/BMW-i3/vehicle/WBY1Z4C58FV278714?utm_campaign=default&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google
    Has the $2500 tech package but not the backup cam (even though I can back up a car with mirrors would have annoyed the **** out of me having such an advanced car without this) and kind of boring silver over gray interior. Plus the 20" rims bend easier than the 19ers.

    I would have likely gone for this BEV-only despite the ext color (has tech and parking package) but the early, small battery packs don't quite have enough range. If my parking garage had a charging station it wouldn't be a problem
    https://www.texasdirectauto.com/for-sale/BMW-i3/vehicle/WBY1Z2C53EV284441?utm_campaign=default&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google

    Then this one with the REX has parking but no tech package: https://www.texasdirectauto.com/for-sale/BMW-i3/vehicle/WBY1Z4C54FV504621?utm_campaign=default&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google

    Came VERY close to making a deal on this solar orange 2015 with all the goodies I wanted but the dealer was non-committal about my trade-in (offered $15k tops, and I got the feeling they'd point out every tiny bumper scratch or bit of curb rash on one wheel and deduct money) without seeing it and wouldn't quote an APR unless I signed a purchase agreement (which was probably easy to get out of, but still).
    https://www.classicbmw.com/auto/used-2015-bmw-i3-4dr-hb-wrange-extender-plano-tx/28704498/
    Looks like a great i3 at a fair price though.
     
  19. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    BMW dealers/salespeople really are stupid, or just don't care about selling i3s. Most likely both.
    1) not one of the 5 BMW dealers I spoke with about i3s mentioned the $2500 rebate TX is giving to EV or CNG buyers and leasers. I had to dig this info from a 1 year old post on an EV forum. Nor did they mention the $1000 by joining BMWCCA. Nor the $1000 OL Code. None of these incentives reduce their profit. Absolutely stupid not to inform the customer about every available incentive to increase the likelihood of a sale.
    2) Not one mentioned free charging for 2 years at EVGO stations, including their 440V DC fast chargers (yes, the one at a Cracker Barrel I spent $12 bucks at last week is included).
    http://chargenow.chargepoint.com/fast-charging

    I get that they sell (I mean lease) 100 X3s for every i3 but come on. There should be one i3 "specialist" that knows something about them. Would probably triple their sales to 20 a year :p
     
  20. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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  21. carguyjohn350

    carguyjohn350 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks for sharing Kurt, seen a few of these around but never gotten close to one.
     
  22. carguyjohn350

    carguyjohn350 F1 Rookie
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  23. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #23 Nurburgringer, Jul 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    Sure thing. I know many people have been driving pure-electric cars for years but for me it’s still something of a brave new world.

    Yeah all the incentives on new ones are what’s really driving “depreciation”. Have read that something like 90% of i3s are leased, and all receive the fed $7500 credit right off the top. I stacked $6500 more (plus an 8% dealer discount) and others have even more due to larger state incentives.
    So basically nobody has ever paid full MSRP on one therefore second hand prices appear extra low.
    If I had purchased instead of leased I'd have gotten another $10k from my company's fleet agreement, which brings the effective price from $54k MRSP to ~$33k. But I'd have been saddled with a ~$650/month payment since putting the $7500 from Uncle Sam only shortens the term not the nut.

    Around Houston you can get a 2014/2015 BEV with low miles (and typically not with the tech package, HK audio, and/or parking pack) for $15k or less. If 60 miles range/day is enough this is a true deal.

    Add REX and a few worthwhile options and they’re ~$22k, but you’ll have the security of ~80 miles extra range on the genset which you can stop at any gas station and refill the 2.5gallon tank.

    Give one a test drive, I bet you’ll be impressed.
     
  24. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    That one does have very low miles and not a bad price but common advice is to avoid 2014s because apparently they tweaked the battery for 2015 MY. IMO it's worth another ~$1000 to find one with the Technology Package (radar cruise, bigger screen)

    Feedback is the even early battery packs have degraded very little even with 50k+ miles and 4+ years, and issues with the battery/electric drive system are quite few but the REX units (650cc scooter motor&generator) have had a few recalls (motor mounts, head gaskets I think) and is the system most likely to need maintenance and repairs.
     
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  25. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Cool write up.

    Now you'll stick out clearly so I'll know when I see your car it's you. Lol
     
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