Probably. But I'm holding out hope that some exceptional drivers will make them dance. I think the accidents will be spectacular. I hope no one is hurt. I'm all for more mechanical grip, but the added aero is the issue as we have all discussed at length.
Ha! I have a diecast 412 sitting next to an s15t on my desk. The difference in tires is just like what is shown here.
If the cars look too easy to drive, there is no show. Even with a dominating team, there would be spectacle if the cars were a handful, difficult to control and slipping and sliding all over the place. It would be nice to see the drivers actually struggling with too much power to handle. I don't mind if a driver is 10s ahead of the firld, if watching him is spectacular; presently, it's not, and the next rules will make it increasingly boring. Grip and aero are killing the sport; they make F1 look mundane and with no drama. What was needed was narrower tyres, of harder compound, and less, lots less aero, to make the cars twitchy, unstable and reduce cornering speeds. The FIA and the Strategy Group making decisions, are going the wrong way in my opinion, and turning spectators off. The attraction of rallying is that the cars are powerful, but difficult to handle and providing a show.
I hate all the aero bits...period. A simple single plane wing front and rear should be enough. No barge boards, flip-ups, winglets etc. I like fat tires. But what if there was just one tire for the whole season, maybe like the current medium. It might be too hard for some tracks and too soft for others. It would be up to the drivers and teams to cope with getting the optimum performance out of the tire at the track of the day. If that means that the car appears to be on rails at one track and on ice at another that would be great. Some tracks may require 2-3 tire changes, some no changes at all. Teams would be able to optimize their cars for that tire with tweaks from track to track. As for the appearance of "control" adding excitement to the races, love them or hate them, NASCAR is really exciting at Sonoma or the Glen because they appear to be on the very verge of control.
Anyone that thinks noise doesn't matter is quite frankly, an idiot. The noise is an integral part of the sensory experience of seeing auto racing live. When I used to tell non F1 following friends about the sport, the first thing I talked about was the noise. It's why people cheer at a flyover overhead or a rock concert. Noise is everything If they did what you're saying they would be slower than WEC and GP2. Totally the WRONG way to go.
Looking at those tires... I'm wondering if/how pit stops are going to be affected. Clearly those rear tires are a handful. If not really the weight, certainly just the size will make swapping those a bigger deal I think.
good point. they look huge, but were probably just used to seeing these horrible narrow little things that have been on the cars since 2010
I'm thinking there's gonna be a few fumbles along the way. I can't imagine there's not going to be drops, bumps, etc. Pit stops could get interesting. Also, being that the cars are wider and the tires are certainly wider, I'm thinking Turn 1 and Turn 2 could get very interesting. I think it'll take a bit for the drivers to get a sense of the space their car really needs. there seems to be a lot more room for wheels inside of wheels type stuff.
I think they weigh max 4kg more all in, so shouldn't be a big issue in swapping them. As for space...just a case of repositioning IMO.
I get what you're saying, but I don't actually bellieve that is because the current cars are "easy". I just think the spec, coupled with the tires leads to driving the cars at 90% or so a lot of the time, because driving them at 100% is not actually the best strategy over a race. I think you can certainly affect that with the tire compound and upcoming changes. But I'm all for giving them insane power and seeing who can actually put it down - 1200-1500HP. Do it! Yes and no I think. Indycar has just as much aero available and the cars can still be a handful. They aren't as advanced clearly, and a totally different tire, but the raw performance is not that far off. Perhaps that is because, given a very close spec, everyone must push harder? No one is really all that faster than the other. Speculating of course. There are also fuel saving strategies in Indycar which work to place well, so I don't think there is anyway to force all out racing unless you make it a true sprint race or maybe a 1 stopper. The other thing that will be interesting to see is how much extra aero they actually use - in qualy, in the race. I mean huge aero is great, but it kills you on the straights and wears the tires, so there has to be a practical limit to what can be achieved. Unfortunately, the power steering will let them crank it super high if desired. I'm all for a cap on aero and more mechanical grip. I think you also need to nail the tires so that maybe there could just be 1 stop a race. I have to think that would cause everyone to push harder and the limited aero would achieve the lively handling fans desire.
Is the fuel limit going to be increased for 2017? If not, then they can put any tires on they want..its not really going to change much of anything with the way they have to conserve fuel during a race. 1200 HP..sure, but how much of the race can they actually use it?
Pirelli makes the tyres such that they degrade to a certain life span, at any power level. Depends on the track as well, some tracks they don't have fuel shortage.
Excellent point. There is no substitute for HP. But, if you don't have the fuel to generate full power the HP numbers are not real. Yet another false impression.
I completely agree. This has been a concern of mine for quite some time. A while ago there was talk of adding a third level of fuel at around 14k rpm in the name of getting the engines to rev higher as with the current final fuel tier which comes in around 11.5k, there is no point to rev beyond about 12k, so they don't. That talk seemed to go silent with Mercedes having a special qualifying mode with an output conjectured to be around 960bhp. I suspect what we will see happen is the fuel allocation will be raised a very small amount. There will be three major tiers rather than I believe the current two, and the rpm for that final fuel allocation will be raised to 14k rpm meaning turbo boost control will be a major factor so the mix is not too lean at that high rpm where more air is obviously flowing.
SEPTEMBER 28, 2016 Teams agree rule changes for 2017 F1 teams and the FIA have agreed a swathe of rule changes to be sent to the decision-making strategy group for approval. That is the claim of Germany's Auto Motor und Sport, revealing that the 2017 changes relate to tyre choice, safety car race starts and the end of a multiple engine change loophole. Another change is designed to address the issue of 'unsafe release' from pitstops, with a light to now show a driver if the pitlane is safe. But the biggest change is the closing of a loophole that allowed drivers to amass huge penalties whilst stockpiling engines under the current long-life rules. From 2017, only the last engine change can be used subsequently, which would render the 'stockpiled' engines useless. Another significant change is that Pirelli will mandate tyre compound selections in the opening 5 races of next year, to ensure teams do not choose too many softs. Teams have also agreed that races should start from the grid after early safety car periods for rain, correspondent Michael Schmidt wrote.
I did not realize they had discussed upping the rev limit - that would be awesome. Trying to race cars with no fuel in them. Sweet.
Pirelli concerned about low 2017 F1 test car downforce levels - F1 - Autosport Interesting article. Pirelli is concerned about developing the new tires for 2017 because the mule cars do not have enough downforce based on the models they ran. So the data they are getting back is not 100% accurate.
Hmmm... that's interesting. It leaves them a bit of wiggle room if/when tires start exploding again. Or is that too cynical? All the best, Andrew.
Provisional Calendar from the FIA - FIA announces World Motor Sport Council decisions | Federation Internationale de l'Automobile
Pssst - I would believe that. But I would also believe that the mules might be light on downforce since they aren't fully developed. However, you would think there would be a brute force way to get more downforce in the car...if only for testing. Bring back front and rear high wings ; )
