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2015 Indy Car

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by BartonWorkman, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    Racing? Hardly. Mindless passing for the lead is not racing. Racing comes from a indivdual or team that can produce a effort that either allows them to charge from the rear of the field to the front and maintain the lead with the end result being a win or strong finish or a team or individual that can produce a result that dominates their competitiors. Jim Hall/Johnny Rutherford/Chapparal 2K in 1980 is a prime example of the later. Rick Mears/Roger Penske PC-10 1982 Indy 500 is a example of the former. Add the 1992 Indy 500 finish or the 1989 Indy 500 finish and you have examples of real racing. Contrived "parity" deminishes the value of real racing for one reason . It is predictable. Those mentioned above could not have been scripted or planned at any level. It is that reason alone the drove the success of Indy Car in the 80's-90's. Small teams, large teams and innovation help drive this success. When a fan or racer can have a similar chance at success, you get both of them back. Excessive costs, forced usage of technology lacking equipment and less than best drivers only drag the product further down. I speak to many racers and the only series they speak of is NASCAR. Good racers follow the money. Indy Car doesn't have it and under present circumstances it won't draw racers or fans.
     
  2. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
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    Define "mindless passing" please. How do you put yourself in a position to make "mindless passes"? Why can't all the teams and drivers do so if it is so easy?

    Being able to pass the whole field seems like a pretty arbitrary and subjective definition of racing to me. You are entitled to it obviously, but I don't personally agree - at all.

    One of the greatest debates you see in racing is the "oh well so and so one X championships, but he clearly had the best car, and I think so-so was a better driver...just didn't have the car". People say that because it's true. If you are the best driver in a mediocre car, you aren't winning unless the other guys are asleep at the wheel. But likewise, there is no denying that a different kind of drama is diminished when you make the cars closer to a uniform spec.

    Those are heroic examples from a bygone era. This is what we have now. Just because you don't like the formula doesn't make it "not racing". It just makes it not appeal to you - and that is fine and I respect that.

    What exactly is predictable about 8 different winners this year? The manufacturers weren't in parity - Chevy dominated early, then Honda battled back later. Scott Dixon winning the season finale and the title in the last race was predictable? It surprised me.

    I agree that a more open formula leads to more unpredictable results, but I disagree that it leads to better actual racing between the drivers. As to the success or lack of success at any point in Indy, I don't claim to be an expert, so I will take your word for it.

    I definitely agree that many of the guys/gals seem to target NASCAR at some point for the reasons you mention; but there is a healthy amount of racers competing in the ladder to Indy and soon Fx with the USF4 series starting next year and the world championships to follow the year after. Many of them hate NASCAR.

    I do think the body kits forced on the teams with limited testing was both a stupid decision and very dangerous, if that was what you were referencing. I don't pretend to know all the politics involved, but I do watch a lot of the racing.

    To say that the only series anyone speaks about is NASCAR - just isn't accurate in my opinion. If that were truly the case, there would be no one in F1600, F2000, USF2000, Star Mazda, Indy Lights, etc. Everyone would go race stock cars, or sports cars, or whatever they feel is the best way to get to NASCAR.

    We should also probably change the title of this thread to "Everything about Indycar sucks".

    : )

    I kid, I kid...not really.
     
  3. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    Care to explain why attendance & television ratings does not relect this so called "great racing"?
     
  4. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    #1304 BartonWorkman, Oct 23, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
    The biggest problem, it seems, is the Indy Car organization as a whole. They won the
    "war" with CART (Champ Car) because they have the race that all the sponsors wanted
    to be in at the time so teams were forced to join.

    Rather than capitalizing on their victory over CART and raise something beautiful again,
    they've taken the series down to the level of virtual spec racing and interest from fans and
    media alike is waning.

    Likewise, rather than make changes to infuse some energy into the series, they continue to
    point to 2017, 2019, 2020 (whatever) to bring in a new formula which would galvanize the
    series.

    It all comes off like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic at this point as the series
    continues to become more and more irrelevant. This short sighted view emanating from
    Indianapolis should be concerning to all racing fans to say the least.

    For every positive step Indy Car takes, they take three steps backward as if they'd just
    like to stop time for a few years while they re-calculate their next move. Unfortunately for
    them, time doesn't stand still and my assertion that they've been making moves to sell
    the whole thing off to NASCAR/ISC for pennies on the dollar is starting to look more
    real with each passing day.

    When NASCAR/ISC get their monopoly (which they've openly stated is their goal), what will
    become of racing in the U.S. as a whole? Shudder to think...

    BHW
     
  5. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    Very well stated. It is why the sport will cease to exsist shortly. One can not attract racers and fans when its intent is to extort money while providing no value to those it seeks. Monopolies have a way of doing that.
     
  6. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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    I don't know the attendance figures, but supposedly the television ratings are trending in the right direction:

    IndyCar Season Sets Record on NBCSN ? Sports Media Watch

    Excerpt:

    NBCSN averaged a 0.3 final rating and 507,000 viewers for 11 IndyCar telecasts this season, up 36% in ratings and 34% in viewership from last year (0.25, 378K) and the network’s most-watched IndyCar season since it began airing coverage in 2009. The previous high was 402,000 in 2011. Overall, this season ranks as the most-watched on cable since ESPN and ESPN2 averaged 778,000 in 2008.


    Again, I don't know what sells racing in the US. I didn't grow up a racing fan or in a racing family. We use to watch the 500, and that was pretty much it. I'm interested in racing now because I'm actually able to be involved in it now. So I really don't know what the formula is to sell Indycar.
     
  7. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

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    Singletrack, that was an excellent post!
     
  8. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

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    ... speaking of the one from last night; the point-by-point rebuttal was very well reasoned, I thought.
     
  9. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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    Thanks David. Just to reiterate, I respect Turbo's opinion and those of others that don't agree. This is just my novice take on things.
     
  10. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    Don't change your opinion for anyone. Disagreement is part of life. It makes you stronger, smarter and above all....wiser. It makes you think.
     
  11. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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    I'm pretty stubborn : )

    I just also realize that I've spent all of about 2 seconds interested in racing compared to a lot of people here. I value all the different paths people took to arrive at their opinions. That's all I'm saying.

    You're still totally wrong : P hehe.
     
  12. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    Same here for stubborn, as for being wrong....maybe....but I still look good doing it!!!! :D
     
  13. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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    LOL!

    Only thing left for us to do is race at this point ; )
     
  14. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    OK! Like that idea!!! ;)
     
  15. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    I'm not sure that I trust/believe the ratings numbers that Indy Car is touting.

    And, even if the ratings are true, having an audience of 500+/-K in a country of 325M,
    doesn't seem so swell. A tick up or a tick down is normal but given that Indy Car is
    PAYING their various networks to carry their live broadcasts rather than the other way
    around isn't very good business. IIRC, a couple of the Indy Car races trended upward
    on the coat tails of being on after high profile stick & ball events.

    Even with interest waning in F-1 around the world, the networks are paying Bernie for
    the broadcast rights and they're still getting tens of millions of viewers world wide.

    Likewise, and I've inquired about this before, Indy Car live streaming is practically non-existent
    despite the fact that their title sponsor is Verizon. Try going on IndyCar.com and clicking the
    live stream broadcast and 99% of the time, it isn't working with some vague excuse about
    the racing being on hold due to local weather conditions or whatever only to turn on the TV
    and find that the race is going on and there are no weather issues what so ever.

    If IMSA can live stream their broadcasts through their website, why can't Indy Car? And,
    don't tell me that because I'm not a Verizon customer being the reason. If Verizon
    is choking off live streaming their races for their customers only, then Verizon should get
    out of the way and Indy Car should get a new title sponsor and media partner.

    Selling Indy Car? The recipe would seem simple. Put cool cars on the track featuring
    a variety of chassis and engine manufacturers. Stir in some "name" drivers at the top
    of their careers (go get some F-1 and WEC talent with some name recognition and a
    media following in their home country) and (most importantly) hire people to positions
    of authority be they front office, competition and in the PR/media departments who
    have actual racing experience.

    Allow teams unlimited testing during the off-season beginning the week after the finale
    event. This keeps the series in the news throughout the off-season rather than what they've
    got now which is six or seven months completely off the radar until the season opening
    event at St. Petersburg.

    That, my friends, would be a good start. But, what do we know right?

    BHW
     
  16. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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    I agree - the numbers seem shockingly low to me even if they are accurate. Hard to compare to F1 since it has so many viewers in so many countries, but if you compare to other American sports, it's a tiny fraction of what they get.
     
  17. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    Stick around.....it isn't going to get better. Shooting one's self in the foot seems to be Indy Car's favorite pastime for the past 20 years or so. Barton has it right, add innovation and other foremnetioned things and you might get people looking. Watching paint dry never got anyone excited. Even if it is two coats!
     
  18. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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    #1318 GuyIncognito, Oct 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    It's so difficult to watch imo.

    I've never been big into indy, but I watched more in the 90s than now. These cars need to be tuned and look more like F1 cars. They look so damn slow going around tracks. Watch F1 around Singapore vs any indy street race. Perhaps it's just the look, but they look like theyre going no more than 80mph.
     
  20. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    I take it you will want tickets for the Boston event! :D
     
  21. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Oofa, that's brutal!

    If there was a magic wand to fix Indy Car, someone would have waived it by now.

    At this point, its only a matter of time before a "Major announcement" is announced and
    ISC/NASCAR comes in for a "happy merger" a-la GrandAm and ALMS and open wheeled
    racing in this county as we know it is finished.

    BHW
     
  22. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    I fear you are correct. actually makes me truly sad. it would be a real loss.
     
  23. Sushimon355

    Sushimon355 Formula Junior
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    official 2016 schedule released... 16 races with one double-header. Fontana off the list entirely. thoughts?

    Streets of St. Petersburg
    Phoenix International Raceway
    Streets of Long Beach
    Barber Motorsports Park
    Grand Prix of Indianapolis
    Indianapolis 500 Mile Race
    The Raceway at Belle Isle Park
    The Raceway at Belle Isle Park
    Texas Motor Speedway
    Road America
    Iowa Speedway
    Streets of Toronto
    Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
    Pocono Raceway
    Streets of Boston
    Sonoma Raceway
     
  24. Heat Seeker WS6

    Heat Seeker WS6 Formula 3

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    Milwaukee Mile is off the list? Granted, that event's been dying a slow death for quite some time and knew it was coming. Just sad that its within walking distance from home and grew up attending that race. We'll be at Indy, RA, Sonoma and maybe St Petes.
     
  25. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    It died because of dimwits and the way they plan. Milwaukee has always been after Indy. Many would go to the month at Indy then make tracks for the Milwaukee Mile. Was that way for years. Now ...what's the point? Lousy racing and no oval track drivers simply has taken the shine off the rose. Sad to see this but......you asked for it.
     

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