2015 24 Hours of Le Mans | Page 13 | FerrariChat

2015 24 Hours of Le Mans

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by BartonWorkman, Feb 5, 2015.

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  1. stever

    stever F1 Rookie
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    Or vendors don't/can't spend $$ on development on a new idea, ex., Tyrell's 6 wheeler 'may' have had promise, but (was it) Goodyear had little interest in new construction/compounds/etc.

    Money sort of compels a spec series lack of innovation.
     
  2. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

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    The Porsche had problems its first Le Mans

    If the rules still allow it, I see a return of the Nissan next year. It was painfully obvious the car wasn't sorted out yet to its potential.
     
  3. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

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    And that is the failure of most sanctioning bodies. It caters to the whims of owners who can't innovate. They won't spend the money or the time to create a winner, instead they whine to the sanctioning body to have it banned because it will cost sooooo much money! If you can't compete in a innovate marketplace then get out. Don't makes others succumb to your failures. Roger Penske summed it up best......"To be successful in racing you have to have total commitment. People that can get the job done and state of the art equipment. Anyone going racing with less will find it won't work".

    It is why I wish Napolis all the best in his quest with his race car and team. He puts his ideas and his money behind his team. They are commited to the project. I hope it bears all the fruit possible. When you are dedicated to winning.....you don't worry about sanctioning bodies. People come to see the innovation and the men who drive them. Not sanctioning bodies.
     
  4. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Nissan team management said post-race that they ran the entire race without the
    aid of their electric motors. Seems a bit incredible that they'd have that pace on
    the straights without the aid of their hybrid.

    So, its either polemics or just trying to save face.

    Nissan builds incredibly powerful motors, that much we know, and have come to sports
    car racing previously with some radical cars which in the end prove to be successful. But,
    have they out clevered (if there is such a word) themselves?

    Nothing quite like a car's first race being on the big stage at Le Mans. They've got
    balls, thats for sure.

    BHW
     
  5. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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  6. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Sure, competitors want to win. And, given the current status of F-1, they're the only two with a credible chance to win, week after week barring some unforseen mechanical issue. I'm sure I'd change my tune if my team (Ferrari) was the one winning week after week, but let's face it, sports are boring if the outcome is a near foregone conclusion...T
     
  7. IamRobG

    IamRobG F1 Rookie

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    I like Hulk, he seems very genuine in his drives and his attitude. I was glad to see him win, although I also like Lotterer and Webber and wanted to see them win too. I think Lotterer is the best driver in WEC right now. I would also like to see Button and Alonso enter. It would show if Alonso is a team player or not. There is definitely no room for "me" in Endurance.
     
  8. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

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    I streamed about 5 hours of their in car cam. Sounds about right.
     
  9. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

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    Out clevered themselves??? I would think that if anything they over thought the idea. Doesn't mean it won't work or it goes on the scrap pile. They simply take a "re-look" at it and determine what worked an what didn't. I think you will see a improved version shortly once all the data is reviewed. Nissan is playing to win. They will. Just going to take a little time and some hard work. They have the tools & the people. They shall overcome the obstacles and find their way to front. Count on it.
     
  10. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    I hope you're right Turbo but I don't think it will be with this particular car.

    Read earlier this week that Panoz is now set to develop the Deltawing into a fully electric
    version. Here again, I don't get the point as the DW has only shown glimpses of being
    competitive and they're now (what?) 3-4 years into this project to now go full on electric
    power.

    There comes a point where it may be all well and good to enter these different ideas and
    create some buzz but when they prove unsuccessful, how long do they keep pouring money
    into them?

    BHW
     
  11. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie

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    Trying new ideas is always commendable.
    Starting with a blank sheet of paper is obviously the way to go, but one has to know also when to draw the line and pull the plug on projects that do not work.
     
  12. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

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    #312 Turbopanzer, Jun 20, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2015

    Agree. But both are still too new and have not been given full development programs. AAR put Delta Wing together, how much test time did they put in it? I see both projects as test beds to figure out the + & - of each. I think Nissan has a plan, they just aren't telling anyone yet what it is. Considering the competition (Porsche, Audi, etc) would you? I think they will be back stronger next year. But so will Porsche and Audi and Toyota. Should make for some even better racing than this years LeMans. Keep one thing in mind......How many years did it take Audi to get to where they are now? Same for Porsche.
     
  13. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Audi entered the P1 ranks in 1999 originally with the R8R. They were fantastic looking
    cars as they appeared at Sebring in all carbon black, like Stealth Fighters. But, they
    were having obvious problems dealing with the Sebring bumps, bouncing over the bigger
    ones and sending up showers of sparks.

    Versus, the BMW LMR V12s, the Audis weren't really in the same league as the winning
    cars but they went on to finish third and fifth overall IIRC.

    In 2000, Audi came loaded for bear with the R8 which was a stunning development from
    the 1999 R8R, very much the kit with more sculpted bodywork and built like a tank.

    At the first test at Sebring in February of 2000, the team put drivers McNish, Kristensen
    and Biela in the 99 car fitted with the 2000 car's suspension. McNish and Kristensen poured
    over the "***** list" of the drivers from the previous year and they could not feel the bumps
    which were being experienced then so the R8s suspension fitted to the R8R worked.

    Tom later told me that it was then that he knew he made the right move going to Audi instead
    of staying with BMW which halted its development to being working on the F-1 program with
    Williams.

    So, it took Audi a year to get in the groove but at the very least, they had some respectable
    results from 1999 to grow on.

    Nissan, on the other hand, may have to go back to the drawing board and start with a new
    sheet of paper as it were.

    BHW
     
  14. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

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    Time will tell but I think within three years they will be creating havoc in P-1. After watching them demolish Porsche in IMSA GTP.......they can win here. Never underestimate your competition.
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Yes and 100+ years of motorsport has shown clearly that front wheel drive has grip issues on slow corners or high powered cars. So why the heck would Nissan be trying to push the hp required in this level of motorsport through the front wheels.

    Why also did the Deltawing get off the drawing board. Sorry it was simply stupid. Cornering speed is everything in motorsport and physics clearly states that the Deltawing was always going to be a failure ... which it was.

    So are those in control at Nissan taking serious good drugs?, or using Nissan motorsport as a way to launder money or something (joke of course)? :D. Just does not make sense!
    Pete
    ps: If their next contender has wire wheels and positive camber I'll know that my second suggestion must be right :D
     
  16. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

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    The NISSAN had power unit teething issues, it was carrying around a hybrid system that was "ballast" - and they had the biggest hybrid system out there. Despite this, they still hit trap speeds similar to the RWD cars, and would of exceeded had everything been working properly.

    Btw, FWD cars dominated the Indy 500 for a period of history.

    The game can change because aerodynamics can be very important, and the FWD layout can be aerodynamically superior. Similar to the Porsche 911 GT1 swapping the engine and transmission for aerodynamic advantage compared to the street 911's.

    Nissan failed to have the car worked out in time. It will remain to be seen what they are capable of if the rules do not change excessively next year.
     
  17. BartonWorkman

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    Was it ever officially announced what one of the Nissans hit on the Mulsanne at night?
    From the video replays, it was hard to determine as it could have been anything from a
    dog to a bail of hay.

    Also, with regard to the incident on Mulsanne Corner with Matsuda who kept attempting to
    continue despite the corner marshals instructing him to park the car, did officials draw
    any penalty as a result?

    BHW
     
  18. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Agreed, when Nissan entered GTP the cars were odd looking compared to their competitors
    Porsche and Jaguar.

    But, it was obvious that the power of those Nissan GTPs was astounding and once they got
    the chassis right, were unbeatable for (what?) four years.

    The Nissan-Jaguar battles at Daytona were riveting.

    Although, I don't think this particular chassis design is going to do it for them, they've got
    moxie bringing it to the game.

    BHW
     
  19. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Unless I am wrong, the Nissan is a 4-wheel drive, like the other LMP1 hybrids, no?

    Front wheel drive is actually intended to be used only on the straights on the Nissan , and 4-wheel drive under accelaration, isn't it? Regarding loss of traction (one of the bugbears of FWD), electronics can compensate for that; think traction control, ESP, etc...

    So, what's the difference with a Porsche or an AUDI?

    Nissan is exploring new avenues in aerodynamics, by channelling the air flow THROUGH the car, rather than above it. That's the breakthrough. New ideas should be welcomed, and not dismissed straightaway. I hope that no rule-maker will legislate them out of Le Mans.

    I do admit, though, that Nissan turned up at Le Mans completely on the back foot.
    They try to achieve too much in a short time and damage their cause doing so.

    It's the same with the DW; they never gave it enough time and resources.
     
  20. FastLapp

    FastLapp F1 Rookie

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    In case any of you missed the below from Sniff Petrol - pretty funny parody of Hulkenburg.

     
  21. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    :D
     
  22. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    That was pretty funny...T
     
  23. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

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    I agree. I saw this first hand with Jim Hall's Chaparral 2K. Al Unser could out run everyone but fell to problems race after race in 1979. !980 comes and Johnny Rutherford takes over at the wheel. They demolished everyone on ovals and despite not being the best road racer, they did well on road courses and captured the championship. Had the rules makers tried to kill the car, the racing would have gotten pretty mundane. Watching the 2K go from red headed step child to prom queen was the best. They blew everyone into the weeds. Nissan deserves the same chance. Let them figure it all out......then stand clear because it will be between them and the boys from Stuttgart. While I prefer the Fatherland's King's of endurance racing, Nissan is going to be heard. Count on it.
     
  24. MABfan11

    MABfan11 Rookie

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    i wonder if someone will make a balls-to-the-wall Le Mans Prototype, and then enter it in the race
     
  25. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Ah, Chaparral ... now you are talking ...

    Pity that we will never see its like again.

    I saw the 2D and 2E at Le Mans in my youth ... out of this world.

    Jim Hall was a genius in my book, but sadly underated.
     

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