2012 FCRA Car Configuration Rules

The original car was 2976 dry. I said 2850 without anything in the car. No cool box,radios,fire suppression and No driver with steak dinner.

 

Yes, thats how the others are listed. Except for fire suppression, we need that to race so it its considered the same as oil and coolant. Gas is considered to be at zero since we can roll across the scales after a race on fumes. Are oil and coolant included in your 2850?

 

+1...Excellent job by the board. FYI we met with the folks from AST/Moton and purchased several sets of double adjustable shocks for the 360CH. They are back manufacturing items with a 3 to 4 week turn around.

 

SCCA directs cars to impound immediately after a session - as you roll through pit lane, you'll see a sign instructing you to impound. In the formula car and sports racer classes I've experienced, you wait in line until you get to the scales, the roll off into an impound area.

 

No. SCCA requires the driver goes to tech just like NASA and PCA. The crew can meet you there but cannot touch anything unless its an emergency.

Rob Lay once did not go and by failing to roll across the scales forfeited his points. Its well documented in the GCR.

 

I am going with Motons as well. I found an awesome deal on what might be the last remaining set of 355 Moton Clubsports (double adjustable) with the old 7 click design. The new ones being built have 15 clicks. I lose a little functionality but saved about $1K.

I have been working with Hoerr Racing Products (www.hrpworld.com) and they are very anxious to work with FCRA drivers. The safety equipment is expired in my car so I need a new seat and a few other things and they have offered me the same pricing they give to their pro race team clients. They also carry the Brembo rotors most of us use. If interested, call and ask for Seanna Hansen and reference me and/or the series.

I also asked about sponsorship for the series. Seanna said they are hesitant on the idea as the ROI is tough to determine but would be open to discussing it. I think the synergies are strong though, expecially if they became the go-to parts vendor for us. She was not the right person to dicuss the topic further so I did not press on.

John, I would consider this sponsorship lead at least a little warm and is worth pursuing. They will not call us, we need more of a hard sell but we have a shot. I can try and work a deal on the FCRA's behalf if you wish, but I need more guidance on the parameters. Please reach out to me if I can help.

 

Even manufacturer Dry Weights are with lubricants and coolant. Some do include windscreen washers and others do not. I had the chance to ask Audi about this and they said that item varies across their business so the 10 lbs or so that represents is an unknown. The Challenge kit did not mandate the removal of the washer tank but who knows whether it was therefore spec'd full or empty. After all the system could be useful in a racing situation.

Another issue is the passenger seat and harnesses. I do not believe the seat was mandatory but most cars retained it for instructor use. I do believe the wing was not included in that 2981/3 as it was never in the Challenge spec. Spec did include all the anti pollution gear which weighs north of 25 lbs I suspect.

Fuel levels were always zero (pumped out) for manufacturer dry weights but the Challenge manual is silent on this too. I think we all believe its assumed at zero fuel. My weight was taken with 1/8 of a tank, the minimum with which I would like to finish which is nominally about 20 lbs.

 

So are you 2930 with no cool box and no fuel? I want to list everything on an apples to apples basis.

 

Rob Cohen 2870 (included expected addition of splitter)
Rob Lay 2940
Colin 2950
Greg 2850
Original Spec 2981


Rob, I pulled out 20 lbs from your # for estimated fuel. EXCELLENT idea about the cage. Knowing I will have to add some weight, I would would rather strengthen the cage versus bolting in lead. At a minimum I may weld in NASCAR style door bars to the existing cage and then come back in and do the rest once the budget recovers from the other changes I am making. Onofrio did this to his car and looked like a good idea.

 

There are a couple of weights owners need to know:

set-up weight: is car, fluids, usually 1/2 tank of gas, driver, full gear used when setting up the alignment and corner balancing.

Final race weight : is car with remaining fuel to safely complete race as driven with driver and gear at the conclusion of a race taken in impound.

starting race weight is "final" + race distance fuel

dry weight: is a useless measure usually used to impress others just like RWHP

Everyone will need to get on the same page when taking about weights especially if power to weight will figure into your rules package in the future.


If fresh dating fire systems consider ESS firecharger system. It is the only user serviceable system trackside with componants that can be shipped around without hazzardous materials charges.

OEM Ferrari cages are not very good. If you are adding NASCAR bars or welding in a completely new cage make sure your builder is supporting the NASCAR bars to the sill plate or a dedicated silltube. That is the biggest error seen in NASCAR bar fabrication.

If your new/modified cage extends and ties into the front shock towers the 348/355 chassis is massively stiffened. Your settings will go right out the window and you will be testing all over again.

 

As I read this our slightly modified 430 should be eligible for the Exhibition class.

Would we have to run restriction on our 430 motor? We're unable to make more than 500HP restricted (About 40 more with our KERS in a mode that charges what it uses during our stints)

I Hope you'll at least let us Pace you again when P 4/5 CM returns to the US.

Best!

 

So I did not get Franco's weight but I think Colin and Rob's cars are good representations of the higher end of the weight scale. Neither has done significant weight reduction other than pulling the passenger seat (Colin's only), removing cats and door glass. Both carry the extra weight of a front splitter.

The average of the 4 cars is 2902.5 lbs. This is 'as you would cross the finish line at the end of a race' i.e no fuel, but full safety equipment and other fluids. This is most appropriate as this is when tech is typically done.

The other data point I would point out is the UK Ferrari Owner's Club rule set that Will posted in the other thread. Their weight for 355 is 2904, very close to the average we came up with. My hunch is there is something to this and they may have collected more data than us.

My recommendation is we pick either 2900 or 2905 lbs. The former is just a little easier to remember and closer to the average of our sample.

If you want to consider driver weight, add 180 lbs so then the answer would be 3080 or 3085. I think the BOD just needs to consider how they want to conduct tech - allow the drivers to relax back in the garage or have them stay in the car until they get through the tech line.

John, do you have everything you need to make a decision?

 

John, a big thank you for everything you've done. I can't even imagine how many hours you've had to devote to standing this whole series up. You've got my support!

 

John, I mean nothing else by asking this question other than curiosity: Are you getting help and advise in choosing a sanctioning body from people who have negotiated with these groups before? My direct experience with 2 of them is that much is promised but often not honored in the breach! In effect they are forced by either a lack of intrnal communication or the long standing habits of their staff to make one size fit all. Tech standards get enforced arbitrarily; decisions are made on the fly (good) but no communicated internally to their staff and externally to other competitors until its too late for both; and the staff (often being volunteers) turns over so fast that thing they/we agree get lost. I know all the advanteages of using a sanctioning body but each has its peculiarities which most racers do not experience. Crew Chiefs see many elements but until you want to associate as we do; or bring a new team or new car through their sanctioning process, one just does not experience the real nature of their organizations.

So curious - its a lot to digest especially when so many organizations are involved.

 

I agree. years of trying to get weight out of my VW/Audi cars has underlined how difficult and expensive weight removal can be. In many ways much more costly than engine and suspension changes. At the end of the 09 season, GrandAm (ST) gave us a 75 lb relief on the TT and our resulting estimate was a $10K cost to maybe get 65 lbs of that. Just not worth it so we did not go back.

Without going carbon fiber on body parts and gutting the dash, at this point, I cannot see any reasonable way to take more weight out of my 355. And I have the lighter weight Challenge cage. If I did the dash, I would have to add NASCAR bars as a minimum resulting in little saved anyway.

Plus anyone having to make weight gets to add ballast where it helps handling and balance which is not all bad.

 

I don't know what my car weighs, but I can tell you that I took out the following;
Door glass, motors, wire harnesses and all related hardware
Wipers, motor and tank
AC blower, duct work, vents
Passenger airbag
center console, and wiring harnesses
cats and muffler

Total weight was ~170lbs.
Total cost ~$0.0(not including Classic building an exhaust!)
I did have them build the NASCAR cage on the driver side, and have no idea what the weight differential was. I would guess about 20+ lbs.


I will try and get Jimmy to scale my car when it gets to the shop. I am looking forward to some seal work this winter. YAY!

 

I have done the same except for the wipers and no NASCAR bars.

What about lights - your still there? And light motors?

Surprised you did not mention passenger seat and harness.

Have to keep wipers as I refuse to become a NASCAR type that cannot race in the rain. There is no question in my mind that anyone that can do that is a race driver; the rest of us are hackers!

 

Your suggested weight is only 11 lbs below the original spec, assuming a 180 lb driver. Really? How many cars are still running with the original cats and door glass in place? Much must would it cost to remove a passenger seat? See other examples in the post just before mine.

Rob, your car is heavy because you made it heavy. You added a non-stock cage. You added a front splitter. You still have your passenger seat. There is a 70 lb difference between the number I suggested and yours. If your body weight was 180 lbs instead of 200 and you had not modified your car, you'd be right where I suggested we set the limit.

 

I'll ballast to where ever, I really don't care much. I just think that to only drop the weight 11 lbs from the original spec, especially when the 2011 FCRA rules allowed for lightening, is silly. You are going to have many of the cars undoing what was done under the allowable rules of 2011.

And comparing to SCCA T1 and NASA rules is equally silly. Those rules were developed to equalize performance against other makes and models. Completely irrelevant. NASA would let you run a turbo if you wanted.