1995 456 Fault Codes 4131 & 1121?

I had been asking about this on a thread on O2 sensor extenders. John, Dean and FBB steered me in the right directions, but John and FBB don't own 1995’s and couldn’t tell me how to find my codes, so I thought I’d start a new thread.

Through trial and error and finding a 2004 post about it, I think I can read the codes on my 1995 456 w/o going to the dealer.

I probably wouldn’t have had to ask about code reading, but curiously, pages C-3 to C-62 are missing from the workshop manual I downloaded on the “Moronic” M2.7 injection-ignition system. That’s the sections dealing with self-diagnosis.

Anybody know where I can get pages C3 to C62 for a USA 1995 456 GT, 6 speed?

I started this quest because I had CEL’s, Left and/or Right, after driving in 100F temps for an hour or more. The first time it happened was when the car was undergoing emissions testing. Yikes! (But it turned out I was only about 5% of allowable on all tests, which means I could be polluting 20 times more than I am and still be legal.)

Turns out, the codes stored were 4131 & 1121 (there were no CEL’s on before I checked). Respectively, these are: “Compressor Connection Signal” and “RPM Sensor”. At least, according to the 8 year old post I found.

Anybody know what that means?

Anyway, I cleared the codes and am I’m now getting 4444, (no faults, according to the 8 year old post).

Also, I’ve been involved in some discussions about making the CEL go off. My opinion is now that you have to press the magic button to make the codes go away. Turning off the battery might make the CEL go off, but the codes are still stored. And I won’t bore anyone again with my “Hard Reboot” method.

Like I said, there was a lot of trial and error involved here and, I think, I only got the 1121-RPM Sensor code to clear with the engine running. Does that make sense?

I guess my ultimate question is: Are the Ferrari CEL’s and fault codes so quirky that you really can’t tell if the problems are real until you see them multiple times? I’m coming more to that conclusion as I read more here.

As I’ve said before, this forum has saved my bacon……Thanks……..Mark in Houston

 

At the risk of boring everyone to death with my newbie questions, I wanted to correct my statement:

Through testing, I now think disconnecting the battery for long enough DOES erase the codes (on a pre-1996 that is, don't know about later models).

Still looking for pages C-3 to C-63 of the workshop manual though........ Regards....

 

Ed.....I too have section C1, but somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

I've read recently there are no 1996 456's; only '95's and then a skip to '97. Our 1995's are M2.7's. The components of the M5.2 appear, at a glance, to be the same as the M2.7, but the ECU is different. And, section C1, for the non-existent 1996, doesn't tell you how to read the codes.

I downloaded the workshop manual for the F355, Vol 1, which uses the M2.7. Eight cylinders, but it helps and it has the code #'s. The ECU is in a different place on the F355, but the 456 owner's manual gives the correct location. Just doesn't tell you there are TWO ECU's, one on each side, or how to read the codes! The F355 manual does.

Still searching for what code 4131 means, if anything.

Thanks... any help is appreciated.......Mark

 

Thanks John and FBB.

I've been turning the compressor off at stop lights when it's hot. Car is not overheating but the A/C sends the temp up when stopped. I'm guessing I'm creating the compressor code, so all seems well.

There's a learning curve for me here, so thanks for bearing with me. After looking at the F355 WSM, I'm getting a pretty good idea of what the M2.7 is doing. Still unsure of why I've gotten CEL's when driving in high heat. I think, I cleared the codes with the battery disconnect. I kind of doubt the 4131 caused the CEL to come on.

I'll be making a 400 mile trip this week. I'll see if I get the CEL's and now I know how to check 'em.

Regards and thanks again...Mark

 

FBB,

Yes, idle comes up and fan comes on, but in this heat, it's on anyway. The oil cooler fan comes on if it gets hot enough too. A/C works fine. I've just noticed that if the A/C is on, the temp, at idle, goes to the 200F or better. Maybe comes down 5 degrees after a few minutes if I hit the compressor stop button. Stay's around 190F at speed regardless. I'm talking about ambient of 100F or more. Remember, I'm in Houston. It was 104 in the shade here a few days ago.

That was my first question on the forum and most said the older 456 w/o mods is going to run hot here. I try not to drive in stop and go if I can avoid it.

Still think there's something wrong?....Thanks......

 

Thanks John & FBB....

I've read the thread John sent me when I first posted and I've considered all the fixes.

This is just my opinion, but I still think the problem is the midget radiator. This thing is smaller than a yard sign.

No science here, just seat-of-the-pants logic. The fans are whirling as fast as anything I've heard on a car, but I'll check the voltage and resistance anyway. The heat transfer from the radiator seems good, IOW's, I feel an enormous amount of heat being blown towards the engine, like the radiator is doing what it's supposed to. The oil temp is never high. However, I have actually felt air coming out of the grill with the fans running and parked in the driveway. This tells me the fan may actually be too powerful and part of it's flow is being directed back out the grill instead of being sucked across the radiator. I conclude from that: a bigger fan wouldn't help?

Again, my guess is that there is nothing wrong with the cooling system other than the design. I plan to, as John, try to avoid the heat. Maybe, I'll look into a different radiator for next season. (I once let one of my cars sit for a whole summer with a broken harmonic balancer because it was too hot to go out and work on it.)

I made a trip to Dallas and back during the record heat we had 2 weeks ago. At about 110F on the road, in full sun, with the new 75 mph speed limit (well, maybe a tad more) and A/C cranked, never saw the coolant go over about 195F. It's just slow driving that lets the temp creep up. Actually, "creep up" is the wrong term. It goes up 20F just by getting off the highway.

Just curious, does anyone feel the temp in the pic below is too high? This is about as high as I've ever gotten. I certainly don't like it that high because it's going to make the wiring, rubber and plastic crispy before it's time. I don't have any of that perceptible now with just 16K on the clock. I'm like new under the hood. I'd like to keep it that way.

Regards...Mark in Houston
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Just wanted to follow-up and thank everyone for their input. And, perhaps get some more……

To our friend in Amsterdam, thanks for confirming the 456 runs a little hot. I’m sure it gets hot where you are, but not like here. We have a friend in Assen who moved there from Houston and when we’re still sweltering, she’s freezing.

Has barely been above 30C for two weeks here and I don’t seem to have any worries at those temps. (Next Spring seems like a good time to explore getting a better radiator.)

And, as planned, we made a 400 mile round trip to Grand Coushatta Casino in Kinder, LA. (See pics below.) Rained hard there and back.

I had 3 “experiences” that, as a new owner, I’d invite comment/suggestions on:

1. On the way back, about 150 miles from home, the driver’s-side windshield-wiper stuck in the vertical position. Not a good thing on I-10 in Lake Charles in heavy rain.

2. About 75 miles from home, again in very heavy rain, I got a CEL for about 1 minute. It went off and didn’t come back on.

3. Once home, I noticed the front light lenses in the bumper (turn signal, etc.) are fogged with moisture. They never have been before, but this SoCal car that has probably never seen rain like this.

Regarding the windshield-wiper, I was able to find a gas station with a canopy pretty quick. The arm was loose at the post. I tightened the locking nut to just where I felt the hollow post was about to break. I’m hoping that’s the end of that problem as the wipers worked fine for the 150 miles of rain remaining and made it home without incident. I’m guessing Guido didn’t snap it down good at the factory, 17 years ago. Is this a known problem?

About the brief CEL, the stored codes are 4131 & 1212.

The 4131 is the same “compressor engagement” code I’ve had before. Does anyone know if this is a real problem? My A/C works fine and the idle increases and the fan comes on as FBB suggested when I engage the compressor.

The 1212, “Additive value for self-adaptation Lambda regulation”, to me, means an O2, MAF or temp sensor. But, no other codes, and CEL does not stay on? Is this just a quirk? Could it be a temporary short or other resistance change caused by driving at high speed on very wet roads? BTW, I’ve checked many on my electrical connectors and they look clean; no corrosion.

Finally, the fogged lights. Is this a recurring problem? I’m going to take the assembly out and dry them with a hairdryer. How is the water getting in? I’ll look, once I have them out, but does anyone have an idea on how to seal them? Again, I’ll avoid the rain, but occasionally it can’t be helped.

Anyway, we had great fun with the valets at the casino. Can you believe most can’t drive a manual trans? After the third parking or so, one young lady who could drive it started calling it “her” Ferrari. Last pic is of a valet trying to figure out how to open the door. I just had to take his picture as he struggled to get out……

Regards….
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Thanks for the input.

When I started looking at 1995 456’s, I read this on Wikipedia and thought I might suffer from some cooling issues:

“The Modificata 456 M appeared in 1998, starting with chassis number 109589. Many changes were made to improve aerodynamics and cooling…”

Obviously, someone, somewhere thought the 456 needed cooling improvement.

I do have an observation: Folks in SoCal and CO seem to think there’s problem. Owners in TX and FL either don’t think there’s a problem or have been unable to locate one. I’ve read that if Dave Helms says it, it’s true. Still, I’m sure there is a limit to the vehicle’s designed cooling capacity, as per Alfredo.

It’s been in the 80’s here for a couple of weeks because of the clouds and rain. I have no problem at idle at these temps (195F when idling with A/C on.). It’s full sun and the ridiculous record heat we had last month that set me wondering. Even then, nothing over 195 while moving, even when using lots of horsepower (which I know from experience drives up the oil temp with even the best cooling system).

Is 215-220F too hot at idle on really hot days? In full sun, the car would be at about 140F inside w/o A/C and the windows closed. That’s a lot of heat for the A/C to remove and it’s dumping that heat directly in front of the radiator. Turn the A/C off and the temp goes down about 20F. Though, I still need to check the fan voltage and resistance as John suggested. But it is “blowing its blades off” as 166&456 describes.

I also don’t think it’s a gauge issue. The engine is hot. Corresponds to what I’m seeing on the gauge, from what I can feel. Sorry 166&456, I don’t think I’ll take the cap off to check. Boiling point w/ anti-freeze should be close to 130C, but it goes down if you release the pressure. I don’t want the scalding.

On the fogged up lights, I couldn’t find an entry point for the water. But, suspect the cover plate on the bottom for access to the halogens. I dried them out with a hairdryer and put some painter’s chalk around the O-ring. Didn’t use silicon, which would be preferable, because I wanted to be able to get them off again. There is a snorkel on the back of the lights that will allow them to dry out eventually, but I didn’t want the water to do damage. About a teaspoon of water in one and only a few drops in the other. I may take more drastic measures it happens again. There was no significant corrosion inside, so this hasn’t been a problem for this former SoCal car.

I’ll look into the recalls, but it hasn’t been that long since the car was at the F-Dealership.

Thanks again from the new guy. I appreciate the help.

 

Again, thanks Dave. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your opinion to me and those similarly situated.

I DO want to know if there’s a problem and I’m not arguing; just looking for guidance.

I concur that the widening for the intake of the M would not help me. At 75 mph+, full sun, probably 110F+ on the asphalt, A/C on, I have no running hot issues. (Maybe, at 100 mph+, (on a track, of course), the faults in the original cooling system, if any, might surface under these conditions.) So, I’m back to either a problem or the cooling system as designed is max’d-out at stand-still conditions.

I’m the 3rd owner of this 17 year old car w/ 17K miles. The original owner had the car serviced at The Auto Gallery in LA up to 2011. In 2011, they did the annual service and full inspection and pronounced everything “operating properly.”

I went through the records and found both owners complaining of the car running hot in warm weather. The 1st owner complained more than once, including early-on. The dealer noted, “Vehicle operating as designed”, although, I can’t say they were referring to the run hot issue. Anyway, I didn’t see where they found and fixed a problem that would be related to cooling.

The dealer replaced hoses 4 years/ 3000 miles ago, and the cooling system has been serviced at least twice since then. I’m not sure if they replaced every hose, but they did replace the hose under the manifold, so I’d guess they got to the easy ones too.

Bottomline, like Alfredo, I’ll keep looking. I’m just not too hopeful of finding what F-Techs have missed for all these years. As stated, I’m leaning toward a different radiator next Spring. For now, I’ll stay out of the high heat and keep checking.

Thanks again…….Mark in Houston