1990 Testarossa intermittent issue | FerrariChat

1990 Testarossa intermittent issue

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by RobertJ, Mar 4, 2024.

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  1. RobertJ

    RobertJ Rookie

    Nov 14, 2022
    7
    Madill Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Robert Jackson
    Ok guys, I have a 1990 Ferrari Testarossa with 23k miles on it, and it is a U.S. spec model with the Capristo 3 exhaust with original Cats, and I seem to have a very strange intermittent passenger side engine shut down issue.

    I have been chasing this issue for quite awhile as I have been regular driving this car in hopes what ever the issue is would just stay, because it would be much easier to find.

    Here is the criteria.

    Not Heat Related, as it did the same Summer, Fall, and Winter.

    It tends to be Split Second direct Off/On to feel the whole right bank is off, so it isn’t a couple cylinder misfire.

    After awhile this will tend to affect the spark plugs on that bank with a rich appearance, and then the intermittent will last longer with the Cold Start or Restart sometimes not firing on that whole right bank. But when the bank is not firing, I can pull the coil wire while running to reveal the coil ks firing, and I can affect the resistance/firing change by hold thing coil wire a bit of distance from the coil for a longer arc.

    These longer timed symptoms change instantly with a new set of plugs in the right bank, until it decided to do it again over time, while still having the split second Off/On that has no rhyme or reason as far as conditions or timing.

    I have changed Plugs, Plug Wires, Dist Caps/Rotors, Spark Plug Insulators, Fuel Pumps, Fuel Regulators, Fuel Accumulators, Bosch Modules, Ignition Relay, while checking grounds and bad or loose electrical plugs/harness with the wiggle/Pull test to find nothing.

    When it is in the longer right bank dead symptom, I can pull the left bank coil wire for an instant stall, but I can pull the right bank coil wire to remain running with some running difference by extending the coil fire arc to the coil wire.

    I have also swapped sides with the coils and Bosch control boxes, the car runs as smooth as silk 99.9% of the time otherwise, and the intermittent is basically an Instant On/Off when it happens.

    Could it be a Spark Plug resistance issue, and the Off/On is way too snappy for a fuel leaning issue, which I am running the NGK Iridium DR8EIX
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,507
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Mar 4, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2024
    You don't mention checking for a burned fuel pump connection at the fuse-relay panel (the connector needs to be removed to see it). This can intermittently disable one of the fuel pumps:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Also, you should swap the fuel pump relays to see if the "problem" moves to the other bank or not. The relays are pretty rugged, but the high current of the fuel pumps does stress them fairly hard.
     
    Qavion likes this.
  3. RobertJ

    RobertJ Rookie

    Nov 14, 2022
    7
    Madill Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Robert Jackson
    I have inspected the fuse block and connections also, and don’t see any sign of anything running warm like that, but it is also not a lack of fuel pressure thing by the speed if the split second Off/On that isn’t common to fuel pressure drop and built up.

    The car doesn’t miss a beat or stumble, it is literally a quick Off and right back On.

     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,507
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Always possible that it's something inside the Microplex ignition ECU (since you've eliminated the coils and power modules by swapping and have refreshed/checked the caps/rotors/etc.). Do you have the capability to measure/monitor the voltage on terminal 1 of the 1/6 coil vs the voltage on terminal 15 of the 1/6 coil in an "oscilloscope" way to compare good-running vs bad-running? In the F-world, you'd probably hook up the Jofatron device to diagnose.

    (You are in new territory as this type of TR symptom/problem has not been reported here before.)
     
  5. RobertJ

    RobertJ Rookie

    Nov 14, 2022
    7
    Madill Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Robert Jackson
    Thanks man, the issue is catching it messing up, because it is totally random and in split second intervals, which is why I was hoping that it would just finally stay dead. Lol.

    But it’s been doing it for about 6 months with no rhyme or reason, which is why I first started chasing loose connections or grounds first, as I was thinking it may have been bump related.

     
  6. RobertJ

    RobertJ Rookie

    Nov 14, 2022
    7
    Madill Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Robert Jackson
    Can anyone tell me if the Injection Units may have a fuel cutoff for deceleration? After chasing all the electrical to find nothing, and the fact the coil appears to be firing at the time of issue, it could perhaps be a quick decel shutoff?

    I don’t think it is a fuel pump, as the triggering off and on is literally split second off and on, rather than a progressive lack of fuel pressure stumble, which now makes me question if there is s head unit decel cutoff that is faulty or randomly triggered?
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,507
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #7 Steve Magnusson, Mar 7, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2024
    No, no fuel cutoff function. One thing you might check is to see is if the Protection Relay system is dropping out occasionally (if the injection ECUs don't receive +12V from the Protection Relay system, the EHA currents drop to zero and the systems go very lean. However, if one bank's mixture is tweaked to the rich side, that bank can stay quasi-running. Try measuring the voltage on the red wire at the water thermoswitch on the Y-pipe relative to ground (with everything plugged in) -- it should always be +12V when the engine is running or starter motor cranking:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    There are many places for a possible "bad connection" in the round C12 and C13 connectors on the triangular black box over the RR wheel well that would affect the Protection Relay system -- especially if the plastic locking rings are broken on C12 or C13. So don't just run out and buy a new Protection Relay if this is the trouble. In fact, just unplugging/reseating C12 and C13 might give some benefit. Good Hunting!
     
  8. RobertJ

    RobertJ Rookie

    Nov 14, 2022
    7
    Madill Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Robert Jackson
    Thanks man, I will definitely check that out, and greatly appreciate the effort with putting the advices together


     
  9. RobertJ

    RobertJ Rookie

    Nov 14, 2022
    7
    Madill Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Robert Jackson
    Steve, I really want to thank you for the help, and I found that may have fixed me up. Turns out that I wasn’t making the best connection on that plug for tout or corrosion reasons, but I found that during the intermittent issue, the car would come back alive when I touched that plug.

    There wasn’t any issues that could be found with the harness or plug, so it appears I may just wash the car too much and it lost connection over time.



     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,507
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Glad to hear that you've found the Gremlin. Are your plastic locking rings still in good condition on C12 and C13, or are they broken off and completely missing?
     
  11. RobertJ

    RobertJ Rookie

    Nov 14, 2022
    7
    Madill Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Robert Jackson
    Yes, all is basically good overall, just had that issue that was causing my problem, but it did allow me to check everything along the way with also performing preventative work along the way.

     
  12. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,546
    socal
    Good hunting indeed. We suffered from random ghosts in the 90s Era 348s that ultimately lead to electrical wiring. When these kinds of randomness appear wring is where I always go 1st.. we have seen all kinds of weird things. I have even thought I had good positive connector connections only to replace them as last resort and getting final resolution. Don't underestimate the weakness of ferrari wiring.
     

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