1989 328 head noise | FerrariChat

1989 328 head noise

Discussion in '308/328' started by Marco Lucchini, Dec 12, 2020.

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  1. Marco Lucchini

    Nov 29, 2016
    20
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Marco Lucchini
    Hi guys, I have had an intermittent noise coming from the from bank of cylinders which sounds like it comes from the head area. It's not there long enough to sort of diagnose. It comes and goes. Anyway, last weekend it developed louder and now is there all the time. It sounds like tappet noise but a little heavier. I've placed a stethoscope on the head and compared it to the rear bank, so it's definitely from the front bank. So far I have removed the cam cover, check valve clearances, checked for a sticky bucket, checked for worn or scored cam lobes and shims. Every think checks out fine. Placed a bore scope into each cylinder to check pistons and for piston land cracks, all looks good. Spark plugs are all even in colour etc. Even checked by pushing on the cam buckets to see if a spring has gone soft or broken. Any one experience anything similar? Much appreciated.
     
  2. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    3,645
    Canada
    Maybe an arcing spark plug extender? Or the exhaust air valve check valve failed/rotted and some exhaust gas leaking out, that can make a tappet like sound.
     
    mike996 likes this.
  3. Marco Lucchini

    Nov 29, 2016
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    Australia
    Full Name:
    Marco Lucchini
    Thanks, will check them out as well.
     
  4. Alfer

    Alfer Formula 3

    Sep 4, 2007
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    Menno
    try to record the sound, that makes diagnosis a lot easier.
     
  5. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2005
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    Sometimes the air injection pipes in the header or the test ports rot out, and you get what sounds like a tappet noise as a result. Inspect those connections into the header carefully. Seems like you have inspected the more consequential engine internals, so it may be something less obvious. How about the Hard to know without actually hearing the sound.
     
    waymar likes this.
  6. Marco Lucchini

    Nov 29, 2016
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    Australia
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    Marco Lucchini
    I'll try and get a sound recording uploaded.
     
  7. Marco Lucchini

    Nov 29, 2016
    20
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Marco Lucchini
    #7 Marco Lucchini, Dec 16, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
    Guys, here are two short videos. Need to listen carefully for the sound in question. Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  8. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,662
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    That does not sound like a ticking but more serious. I don't know what it is but I would dig deeper.
     
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  9. Imatk

    Imatk Formula Junior

    May 6, 2007
    301
    It could be as simple as an exhaust leak.

    Get it off the ground and take some tissue paper and just put it around the edges of the manifold. If the paper starts blowing then you have a much easier fix :)
     
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  10. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2005
    3,645
    Canada
    Yes, I am thinking exhaust leak, could be the manifold but also the air injection and exhaust test pipe items I have noted. I had a similar sound when an air injection check valve failed, it looked fine outside but was all rotted out inside and corroded right through on the bottom where is was not visible. I was perplexed at the time and worried about valve train issues, but was relieved to see a $10 part needed replacement (and they all do, it should be a routine service item). So easy to check, so may as well remove the hose and or the item and see how it looks.

    It is very consistent in pace but louder on revving. Most valve train ticks would be about the same volume regardless of rpm, albeit the engine noise tends to mute the ticks as revs go up, the opposite of what you have. If not an exhaust leak, maybe do a compression and leakdown test to see if you have a headgasket leak or valve seat worn?

    Is there more ticks from the distributor side verses the belt side? Maybe a worn distributor cap with some arcing, albeit one would expect some performance issue if that were occurring.

    Seems to run and rev well despite the ticking. That plus the consistency of the tick should help pinpoint a cause.
     
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  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Have a look at the drives in the distributors for wear
     
  12. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2010
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    Derek W
    Yes, put your stethoscope on the distributor, I had an advance weight start tapping inside on a car once. Most likely a cracked tube (air injection or sniffer pipes.)
     
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  13. Marco Lucchini

    Nov 29, 2016
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    Australia
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    Marco Lucchini
    The distributor is a rota button bolted straight onto the cam, no weights etc. Electronic ignition on 328's.
     
  14. Marco Lucchini

    Nov 29, 2016
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    Australia
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    Marco Lucchini
    Yeah, I'm not to keen to drive it until this is resolved.
     
  15. Marco Lucchini

    Nov 29, 2016
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    Marco Lucchini
    Thanks for the advice. It's certainly another starting point for my investigation to progress. I'll check on all of the about and let you know what I find. Thanks.
     
  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    I was assuming same as 3.2 mondial
     
  17. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    2,153
    Kingsport, TN
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    Lawrence A. Coppari
    My clicking noise on my '87 GTS was a corroded exhaust test pipe on the front bank. It was so laborious removing the front header I removed and plugged all 4 of them on that bank.
     
  18. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    How did you like sitting in the gas tank position?
     
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  19. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
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    Lawrence A. Coppari
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  20. Marco Lucchini

    Nov 29, 2016
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    Australia
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    Marco Lucchini
    Well, removed the exhaust check valves and plugged them off, removed all the 'V' belts, changed oil, replaced the oil filter, checked for exhaust cracks, inspected the oil pump relief valve etc etc, the noise is still there. Decided to cut the top off the old oil filter, and to my horror...... copper shavings. Can only mean one thing... main or big end bearing are toast. Looks like an engine out job and a few dollars out of pocket.
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  21. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,990
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    Bummer...I feel for you; that's not common, but there is no solace in that remark. How many miles, or Kilometers?

    Rgds
     
  22. Alfer

    Alfer Formula 3

    Sep 4, 2007
    1,346
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    Menno
    Indeed not common and if the main bearings are gone you expect a different (harder) sound. Engine sounds (except the ticking) healthy. I share the ideas mentioned above already that a small leak in the exhaust manifolt is first thing to look at what I has with my 88.5 328GTS last year. I needed simply to fasten the copper alloy nuts to solve it.
    Please share the further news/info on this with us fellow enthousiasts for the 328.
     
  23. Marco Lucchini

    Nov 29, 2016
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    Marco Lucchini
    100,000 kilometres on the clock. I have just ordered a two post car lift as I'm sick and tired of working under cars on the garage floor. Once on the hoist, i plan to remove the oil pan and with some luck, try and remove the suspect connecting rod cap to verify a damaged bearing before going full out and removing the engine. There's no other component that I can think of that is made from copper.
     
  24. Marco Lucchini

    Nov 29, 2016
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    Australia
    Full Name:
    Marco Lucchini
    I'm thinking it's just one of the rod end bearings on the front bank of cylinders.
     
  25. Alfer

    Alfer Formula 3

    Sep 4, 2007
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    Menno
    Marco,
    Did you drive the car with the ticking? A well known ticking sounding rather similar comes from the AC belt. You will find several articles on this (ticking or tapping noise). That is located on the right side of the front-end bank. When the engine warms-up the ticking sounds disappears (minutes after starting the car). This is solved by substantially increasing the tension of the belt, this tension needs to be rather high. Below pics and directions help to do this easy job.
    The metal shavings you found in the oil filter, might that be from the sawing you did to open it?

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