1988 Mondial CAB with ABS | FerrariChat

1988 Mondial CAB with ABS

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by syata, Jan 30, 2018.

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  1. syata

    syata Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2017
    421
    How is the break pedal play on the Mondial with ABS?

    I have a 1988 Mondial with ABS and the break pedal play is not long at all. I tend to have to re-learn myself that the play is very short vs my other ABS and non-ABS cars.

    Is the short break pedal play normal?

    Thanks



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  2. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 16, 2004
    3,920
    MA
    Full Name:
    Ron Frohock
    I also have an 88 Cab with ABS. The brakes are a bit touchy, not a lot of travel in the petal, but manageable.
     
  3. syata

    syata Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2017
    421
    Thank you for the reply. I see what you mean by touchy. When I apply too much pressure I lock my tears...same pressure on other cars and no locking.
    I thought ABS would not lock the rears that easy.


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  4. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    3,628
    Canada
    My 1988 Cab ABS works like in a modern car, not huge pedal travel, but you need to brake very hard to get the ABS to actuate, and the braking seems balanced, no rear bias on mine. I never felt the brakes to be any different than other cars, maybe less travel, but not touchy or locking up. There is a "delay valve and braking corrector" that prevent the rears from braking before the front. That should not happen in normal braking. These are located at the rear of the car. The braking corrector is a pressure valve, pn131322 which is not too pricey, the delay valve is very expensive, pn 134597 like $1,500. I think one can remove and pressure check these two assemblies which are joined together, not sure how one does that. There is a graph with specs on it showing how these items are supposed to behave under difference hydraulic pressure. Given the price, would probably not just replace the item. But this is the only part of the system that woudl appear to cause premature rear braking. Maybe some internal brake line break down has put some crud in the system hat has affected the valve? Maybe removing the valves and flushing thoroughly might solve?

    I do have the Ferrari manual for this Teves system. There are three main diagnosis procedures, one being a pressure test with various sequences of operations and reading that help diagnose. There is also a special Ferrari multimeter which can do a myriad of tests.

    But there is also a built in diagnostic procedure. You insert a fuse (I attach the page which shows where), turn the ignition key on and observe the ABS warning light. It should go on, and stay on for about 4 seconds, then go off. If that happens there are no electrical defects. If there is some failure indication, after 4 seconds the light goes off and then does a series of 1/2 flashes at 1 second intervals. It then goes off for 2 seconds, then flashes again 1/2 second each before staying lit indefinitely. The number of flashes in the first and second sequences are the units of the failure code. No reason why you can't give this a check.

    The pressure test uses a gauge that connects to the high pressure line on the accumulator. You then pump up the brake, and operate the electric pump briefly to empty the pressure gauge, then pump again to unload the pressure. You use a stopwatch and measure the pressure drop. Looks like something a competent garage could do, I can get you the chart that shows what the various pressure tests indicate if you need that for a garage to help diagnose things.

    The other tests use a mulitmeter, that appears to require a interconnector to the 35 pin connector that connects to the anti skid control unit. Pretty much anything can be diagnosed with these tests, which also corroborates some of the results from the other two tests. Maybe an experienced Ferrari tech can confirm if you can use a multimeter directly to the connector pins, or whether you actually need the interconnector tool. In any event, there are a whole bunch of readings that are in another chart.
     

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  5. syata

    syata Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2017
    421
    My Mondial is in storage until the weather gets better here. I will check the internal break lines first.
    The thing is, after you drive the Mondial you forget about the short break play and bang...too hard breaking.
    It may just be me not paying attention that these breaks are not like on our other cars(BMW, Jeeps, VW) that have ABS.


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  6. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2005
    3,628
    Canada
    The hard brake pedal feel may be ok, but the rear locking up before the fronts is not supposed to happen. If you were taking a fast corner and braked with the rears getting to much of the brake load you would get snap oversteer and spin out. The delay valve is to prevent exactly this from happening, in combination with the pressure balancing valve that keeps the front to rear brake balance in correct proportion.

    If you still have the original rubber brakes hoses, they can break down inside even if they look fine outside. A thorough pressure brake bleeding will probably be a good idea, if you see black particles in the fluid that comes out from bleeding that would be a sign to replace the hoses.

    The ABS system is very reliable, but that assumes fluid is changed every few years, which not everyone does.
     
  7. syata

    syata Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2017
    421
    I had the car serviced at the closest Ferrari dealer - requested all fluids changed - and do a detailed check and advise after I purchased the car last August. I assumed they would advise if any parts are worn or close to be replaced. I had a rather large repair bill. I wonder if they overlooked the breaks.
    I should get the car out of storage in a month or so.

    Any suggestions I should do or be aware of when I get the car out of storage?

    Thank you.



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  8. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2005
    3,628
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    Check your bill to see if they did indeed change the brake fluids, not automatically included in an "all fluids changed" instruction. If not changed, then get it changed. Mention to them that the rear breaks seem to lock before the front and see what they say about that. Might have them do a test drive to check themselves.
     
  9. syata

    syata Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2017
    421
    The receipt does indicate brake fluid for $50. That amount I would say they flushed the system and not added/topped it off.
    I recall telling the service write up person that the PO had the car for 3-4 years and only did oil changes. I proceed to bring the car up to its service with all belt and fluid changes, replaced torn CV boots, oil cooler leak repair, etc.
    The dealer went through the car and advised on things to do now and items that could wait (like deteriorating weatherstripping).

    So your break pedal has a short travel play or a regular where you can apply pressure over 2-3 inches? Seems, as I recall, my travel play is about 1 inch.



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