1983 Ferrari 400i Auto | Page 3 | FerrariChat

1983 Ferrari 400i Auto

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Gamboss, Jul 18, 2013.

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  1. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,156
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #51 Steve Magnusson, Jul 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
    That's the hardware that suspends a sacrificial anode in the coolant (and electrically connects it to the brass radiator shell). A typical product name is "Radiator Saver", but these come with a Zinc anode material (meant to be used in a brass radiator of an all-iron engine to protect the radiator from corroding). On a F, they are used to try to protect the Aluminum of the engine -- but that requires using a Magnesium anode material and connecting a jumper wire to electrically-connect the radiator/tank shell to the chassis (and the Aluminum engine block).

    Can you post a photo of what's on the other end? Do you have the jumper wire present?
     
  2. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    Bruce
    Very good info Steve, was this a factory install :confused:
    Kinda like outdrives on boats.
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,156
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #53 Steve Magnusson, Jul 29, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
    No, strictly an aftermarket thing. Never really had a way to long-term study if putting a Magnesium anode into a F cooling system was effective at preventing, or even reducing, the corrosion at, for example, the head studs to the head -- but doing nothing isn't so great either ;).

    If Aidan pulls up a die-cast blob of quasi-intact Zinc between the rubber end caps, and has no jumper from the tank to the chassis = the anode wasn't doing much besides protecting the Brass tank (but the Aluminum engine is already doing that).

    If he pulls up just a bare threaded steel screw+nut with the rubber end caps, or a threaded screw with some small chunks of Mg "chalk" (that easily crumbles away) = maybe this from 20 years ago:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    With the change to plastic tanks on most auto radiator systems, this approach isn't that viable anymore (nor is radiator corrosion much of a problem these days since Aluminum use in engines has become widespread ;)).
     
  4. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Hi Steve

    I pulled the wire and it doesn't seem like it wants to budge.

    Aidan

     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,156
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    If you are careful, you could just poke around with a screwdriver to see if you can locate/dislodge the other end of the wire/anode (but I'd hang onto the wire itself why doing this and not rely on the spade connection to the ring) -- IIRC, the wire is about 6" long.
     
  6. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Steve

    Just had another dig around, and it is stuck fast...

    Aidan
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,156
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    Well, when you do the coolant change you should be able to just look into the filler neck and figure out what's going on -- e.g., if there are some baffles inside the tank, the wire+screw+anode end could snagged.
     
  8. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    Wow! Your very own tip sheet for FML :cool: How many of these have you contributed??

    Steve,

    The rad. filler neck is off to the side of the radiator top, I don't see how you can see into the radiator (except for a video pig).
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,156
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #59 Steve Magnusson, Jul 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    A few -- not as many as I would like to have (or should've) done. FChat has been a bit of a time distraction ;)

    Well, that may explain it being snagged -- if you just have a crude intersection of a cylindrical tube horizontally intersecting into the upper tank wall. Think of there being a small dumbbell on the other end of the wire so one would have to "lift" the wire vertically some at the tube end when trying to withdraw the dumbbell horizontally -- didn't say it would be easy ;). Here's an old ad showing what's probably on the other end of the wire:
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  10. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    Tell me about it :D

    I'm figuring just as you are/crude joint but you can poke your finger through the horiz. section & into the rad tank to guide the lifting/extracting process. The fact that Aidan can't budge it at all leads me to believe that that little sucker is somehow wedged, maybe the anode corroded/dropped & jammed in-between the fins :confused: A little video pig would be pretty handy.
     
  11. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
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    #61 aidanparte, Jul 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    With the help of my trusty coat hanger and the drawing from Steve, I have retrieved the sacrificial anode!

    Any thoughts on its condition, etc.?

    Aidan
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  12. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
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    Is there still a source for the magnesium version?
    Greg
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Looks way too uncorroded IME to be Magnesium ;)

    Is the brass shell of the radiator/tank connected to ground, or is it still electrically isolated on its vibration mounts?
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,156
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    I've got ~40 left over -- give a PM shout if you'd like to buy a few (but you'll have to get your own "Radiator Saver" hanger hardware).
     
  15. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    Go Aidan, Go Aidan!

    You need to look for that Aidan!
     
  16. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    Aren't the anti-corrosive properties in coolants enough? My understanding is high temperatures accelerate the reactivity of the corrosion process & as Steve pointed out...the most vulnerable area of the cooling system is aluminum, in the high heat rejecting areas, i.e., the heads. If an anode is to be super effective, I think it would have to be local to the problem area, not dangling atop of the radiator.
    Again, aren't today's coolants sufficient to keep corrosion at bay?
     
  17. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,156
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #67 Steve Magnusson, Jul 30, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
    Agree 100%, that that would be best. I'd prefer that F do a design where an electrolyte (condensation/coolant weep) doesn't get into the head stud -to- cylinder head space -- I wonder if they've done anything there design-wise on more recent models...

    Yes, I'd agree that modern aluminum engines seem to live out their lives just fine without the corrosion being so bad that there's enough material loss to be of any concern, but the excessive corrosion between the head studs and the cylinder heads on F doesn't make things easy -- replacing the head gaskets on my TR turned into a ~3-day project for Moorespeed!
     
  18. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Ok, will do.

    BTW, the parts diagram shows the two fans in front of the radiator to be part of the air conditioning system rather than for engine cooling. Is this correct?
     
  19. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    Maybe FML might have some sort of connection with the factory/engineers you could take advantage of.

    I'd like to hear more about that story!

    I have to say Aidan, living in FLA...I don't use my air conditioner, i.e., e.g., I don't drive in the blazing sun...+ too many idiots on the road for me.
    Very very early in the AM, you've got the road to yourself. Old school I guess but air cond. & sports cars don't mix/robs HP.
    With all that said, all my fans come on when the gauge hits 100 +/- with A/C off.
     
  20. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Interesting. Mine don't seem to come on - need to investigate.
     

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