1973 Ferrari 365 GT4 2+2 Chassis 17143 | FerrariChat

1973 Ferrari 365 GT4 2+2 Chassis 17143

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by samsaprunoff, Dec 6, 2012.

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  1. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #1 samsaprunoff, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Good day All,

    Just Documenting them as they come up...

    Apparently the paintwork cost $20000.00

    It sure looks like a nice clean car... with books and tools it looks like as well!

    http://www.motorcargallery.com/vin17143.html

    1973 365 GT4 2+2
    Color: Green Exterior with Tan Interior
    Mileage: 37536 KM
    Location: For Lauderdale, FL, USA
    Chassis: 17143
    Price: $42500.00 USD

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  2. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 MS250, Dec 6, 2012
    Boy that's a hard color to love.

    Good thing it has tan interior - he sure is asking some serious money for this car. Not sure what is going on with that rear seat behind the driver side.
     
  3. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #3 samsaprunoff, Dec 6, 2012
    Good day BR,

    Indeed, the green is a tough one for me too... It is certainly unique... Maybe it looks better in person? I did speak with one of the sales people (nice fellow BTW) about the car and its price. Personally I felt that the price was high all things considered, but the salesmen thought otherwise... I did justify my price ceiling by the 365's I have been monitoring over the last number of months both here in North America and in Europe. I may have intimidated him with the info I had, but I felt I had a valid rebuttal given his price position. Regardless the fellow just responded by saying that the 365 really should be worth a lot more considering its shared mechanicals with the C4. One cannot argue with that point, but the market price is what it is regardless of what one thinks the price should be... especially considering that there are a couple of cars in Europe that appear to be nicely refreshed (i.e. nice paint, new interior, refreshed engine, etc) for about $15K more and in more main stream colors.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  4. dinopaul

    dinopaul Formula Junior

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    #4 dinopaul, Dec 7, 2012
    The ex. Jean Claude Duvalier's car.
    Baby Doc ! Hawaï !
     
  5. dinopaul

    dinopaul Formula Junior

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    #5 dinopaul, Dec 7, 2012
  6. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    #6 Ak Jim, Dec 7, 2012
    I like the color. Did you guys notice the "ski jump" is white like on a C4 instead of wood.
     
  7. GreggG

    GreggG Karting

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    #7 GreggG, Dec 7, 2012
    Jim, I did take note of C4 shifter console. I wonder if this was how it came from the factory. Also, while maybe period correct, that blaupunkt stereo would not have been my first choice for the GT4. And this car also stateside! Geez. My percentage share of the U.S.-based 365 GT4/2+2 market just experinced a roughly 200 basis point reduction--at least based upon my limited knowledge of what's out there, which is likely grossly incorrect. Any of the anoraks out there have anyt idea how many 365 GT4/2+2s are currently in the U.S.? I can honely say that I've not seen another in the Tri-State area, which, IMHO, isn't such a bad thing.
     
  8. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #8 samsaprunoff, Dec 7, 2012
    Good day All,

    Wow, if 17143 could speak...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Duvalier

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  9. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

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    #9 3500 GT, Dec 8, 2012

    It is not conclusive that this was actually "Baby Doc's" car. It may never have been. His ownership would actually hurt value anyway. It was only to have been in Hati, and owed by a "diplomat".

    The scary part is the rust on the body and chassis that you are not being shown by the "seller". When was the last time you inspected a 40 + year old vehicle that had spent most of it's life on an island in the Atlantic, Pacific , or ANY ocean climate. EVERY fastener and part that was plated is toast. Not to mention the chassis/frame and body seams. Ferrari mechanics on Hati, I don't think so.

    Don't walk away,....RUN!
     
  10. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #10 samsaprunoff, Dec 9, 2012
    Good day 3500,

    You make some good points, but it does sound like the car did not actually reside on an Island for the majority of its life... At least that is not how I read it anyway:

    So, it sounds like the delivery was originally outside of the US and then resided in New York. Given that the ad states that there is a documented history and service records, then the residence of the car should be verifiable.

    You are quite correct that a 40 year Ferrari should be thoroughly inspected from both a mechanical and paintwork perspective, as time is not usally too kind to these or any other cars for that matter.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  11. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    #11 open roads, Dec 15, 2012
    I drove this car today. It presents very well as a number one driver. Perhaps a one plus. It started nicely from cold. Everything was as it should be. It was a nice driving experience.

    The sounds in particular are very nice.

    I was told that the car was a different color when new and that it was the ambassadors car.


    Someone will get a nice one hear IMO.
     
  12. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    #12 ArtS, Dec 15, 2012
    Do you konw the original color?

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  13. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    #13 open roads, Dec 15, 2012
    No. I believe the salesman said he thought it may have been gray. Perhaps it's mentioned on a receipt. I didn't ask to see them but he said it was well documented. There were one or two owners after the embassy and there were annual checkups for a while with one of the owners changing the points and plugs every year.

    I would find that color combination attractive.


    Compression was checked by the sellers and it was good across all cylinders.
     
  14. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #14 samsaprunoff, Dec 17, 2012
    Good day Stan,

    Your test drive certainly did something... now they want $46500 for the car (it was originally listed as $42500) :( ... I wonder why the price increase?

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  15. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

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    #15 3500 GT, Dec 17, 2012
    It's been listed for THREE different asking prices in the last three weeks. Speaks volumes about the dealer. The market will dictate.
     
  16. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    #16 open roads, Dec 17, 2012
    Hi Sam,
    I saw that price listed before I got there. I guessed they were trying different things at different times.
     
  17. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #17 samsaprunoff, Dec 17, 2012
    Good day 3500,

    Wow, three times? Yikes... What was third price I missed? Was this third price before the $42500 or after?

    I did hear that the Dealer was trying to determine an appropriate price for the car. In my discussion with them they have a certain view as to what the price "should" be (i.e. given the prices of the C4, etc the car should be priced at ...) Interestingly, they did seem somewhat surprised (maybe even annoyed?) that I knew what 365s recently sold, their prices, and what was currently available.

    You are quite correct in that the market will determine what the current price is... I know I am out at this current price... I would rather spend $14K more and get one that has been already refreshed (paint, interior, mechanicals) in a color more appealing to me... Or spend $16K less on a driver needing some attention and spend the $$$ needed to bring it up to where I would want the car.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  18. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #18 samsaprunoff, Dec 17, 2012
    Good day Stan,

    Understood. However to me price volatility like this does not reflect well on the Seller, as the price should have been researched prior to the car being listed. That being said maybe there is a number of interest parties and so there is a bidding war? No matter the reason, I wish them well with their sale.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  19. brettski

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    #19 brettski, Dec 18, 2012
    so, what "should" the price be Sam ?

    what 365's have recently sold ?

    what is currently available ?

    thanks,

    brett
     
  20. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #20 samsaprunoff, Dec 18, 2012
    Good day Brett,

    Why the somewhat abrupt/terse post?...however, in response to your questions...

    The dealer felt that the cars should be closer in price to the C4's ... which are around $100K +/- $20K. This may be accurate, but from my unsophisticated view this is not where the market "appears" to be today... I say appears, as 365's in this price range have sat with dealers for a long time now...

    What do I think? I have a range that I would be prepared to pay which is highly dependent on the car's condition... Am I the market? Absolutely not, but my range is where I would feel comfortable... no more/no less.

    Most recent was 18231 that just sold at Barret Jackson Vegas just in Sept for $44K USD (to the buyer)... the seller netted approx $37K USD because of BJ's fees. Super clean car with nice mechanicals, paint, etc. The only strange thing is that it's interior is from a later model...

    The Brown (Chassis 17393) sold this Spring... Exact price is unknown, but after my chat with the dealer $32K USD would have taken the car and so I would guess the car sold for somewhere close to this. Apparently this car went to Texas. Personally I would have went for this car, but after chatting with you, looking at some pics, etc I decided this was not the car for me.

    RHD (chassis unknown) fully refreshed (paint, interior, mechanicals) car in Britain listed for about 24K GBP...

    a. Red 365 at John Scotti ... somewhat of a project car
    b. The 365 that you had/have ?
    c. Red 365 in CA
    d. Several cars in Europe (Germany, Italy, etc)... condition varies... cars needing attention can be had for 21K to 23K Euro... clean originals around 30K Euro, refreshed ones around 40k and up Euro, etc
    e. A few (2 or 3) for sale in Austrailia (RHD models)
    f. 400GT-5 Speed may be still available in NE USA with an asking $34K USD

    This is what I have found and I am by no means an expert.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  21. GreggG

    GreggG Karting

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    #21 GreggG, Dec 18, 2012
  22. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #22 samsaprunoff, Dec 18, 2012
    Good day Greg,

    Awesome! This must have recently been listed. This is by far my favorite car in my favorite color. They must have been the purchaser at the BJ auction... My guess is that they will be wanting north of $44K, as that is what they paid at the auction. Interestingly this car was driven about 1000 miles since 2009 when I first saw the car on Ebay.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  23. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    #23 jm3, Dec 18, 2012
    Great summary. Thank you. I love the green car, would have liked the Grigio/Oxblood original finish even better
     
  24. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

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    #24 brettski, Dec 18, 2012
    not intended as "terse" Sam...i was just engaging in the discussion...and thanked you in advance !

    so, thanks again...i appreciate you taking the time to elaborate.

    brett

     
  25. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 simon klein, Dec 18, 2012
    To clarify:

    4 in Aussie:1 in Sydney,$68K,2 in Victoria,1@ $50K the other @ $90K!(though apparently fully restored) and 1 in Perth @ $40K which seems pretty good value with books and tools.
     
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