News

1962 GTO sells for $35 Million

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Gran Drewismo, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    7,578
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    That's not a missed gear but a normal crunch that many Ferrari gated gearboxes make when cold? Couldn't they have warmed it up first? Nick Mason's car I think and not c/n 3505GT which is RHD.
     
  2. richardowen

    richardowen Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2004
    837
    Montreal, Canada
    With unrestored blue chip cars attaining more than their fully restored brethren, 3647GT could therefore attain a premium over most. 3505GT has a very original-looking body (no filler etc), even though it looks it has had a nose job or two.
     
  3. The Kook Abides

    The Kook Abides F1 Rookie

    Jan 4, 2011
    3,387
    At the start of the warm up lap he clearly attempts to put it in reverse. At .50 into the vid.
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    7,578
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    I'm sure you're right. Look at 1.38 when he changes down fron 2nd to 1st. Sounds like the box is still cold. Which c/n is the Green GTO seen at about 12.20?
     
  5. The Kook Abides

    The Kook Abides F1 Rookie

    Jan 4, 2011
    3,387
    I saw that as well. You can't hide from the Go Pro! LOL.
     
  6. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,805
    1995.

    If you can`t compare the mid 90s DM then you can`t also compare what the owners paid in the late 60s or mid 70s who still have their GTO in their parking lot.

    And don`t forget that the DM was always very strong currency. Also the US$ is not the same as it was 20 years ago.

    However - the Alfa 33 Stradale turned out to be a great investment, as is/was the GTO.
     
  7. JCW Driver

    JCW Driver Formula Junior

    Oct 24, 2006
    393
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Bronson G.
    Done that myself in a ferrari once (albeit NOT in a GTO hehe...) :-D. Was rather redfaced.
     
  8. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
    1,921
    #108 cheesey, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
    all of the '60s gearboxes seemed to be cold natured especially when trying to select reverse or 2nd gear the 250 SWB, 330 GTC/GTS,330LMB all would like to offer a slight crunch, it was easier to skip 2nd gear until the transmissions warmed up... that crunch would drive the wife nuts, she much prefers the Porsches which would not do that and were easier to drive...although she does enjoy driving a 12 cylinder under hard acceleration with the top down to get max from the sound
     
  9. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

    Sep 18, 2007
    4,657
    Malibu, CA
    After reading your post, it occurred to me that you seem to think you have some claim to knowing what is best for "our little hobby".

    Why is that?
     
  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    7,578
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    Going to answer my own question here after doing some research. The green car in the video is c/n 3767 GT owned by Sir Anthony Bamford? Would this car have been supplied new to its first driver David Piper by the Ferrari factory direct or via Maranello Concessionaires?
     
  11. Cris Bertschi

    Cris Bertschi Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    788
    Buenos Aires
    Full Name:
    Cristián Bertschi
    Walter,
    Of course it was a good investment, I was just trying to know HOW good.
    For certain, in the 1995-2012 period not 8 times.

    Anyway, I cannot see a car as an investment, only.
    Regards.
    Cris.-
     
  12. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,805
    Well, I agree with you reg. the investment view - but when someone spends so much cash ($$35m) for a car (or art etc.) he MUST care about the investment aspect!
     
  13. Cozmic_Kid

    Cozmic_Kid F1 Veteran

    Dec 1, 2005
    7,488
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    B. Frandsen
    Thanks :)

    That is more or less also along the lines I was thinking. :)
     
  14. amc

    amc Karting

    Apr 9, 2009
    236
    old school
    Bugatti Royale Coupe Napoleon
     
  15. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,190
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    A related question, is there any doubt that the Schlumpf Collection is the world's most valuable?
     
  16. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
    2,327
    Cardiff. UK
    Full Name:
    Nick.
    well as #4675gt was built as a series 1 in the first place couldnt he just have "put it right" ;)
     
  17. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
    1,921
    #117 cheesey, Jun 6, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
    how do you want to define valuable ?

    by collective monetary value, or some other subjective terms... it has 400 some cars in inventory, mostly Bugatti...

    is one specific marque more valuable than another, is a smaller collection of various marques with significant cars more valuable, is value determined by the collector as a collector owning perhaps one or two cars that have the most meaning to him

    in regard to Bugatti, intellectually I appreciate the marque, I had a neighbor that had a couple, we had fun with them, yet I have no desire to have one, their value to me does not exist...
     
  18. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,190
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Market value.
    There's a lot more there than just Bugs.
     
  19. iwanna860monza

    iwanna860monza Karting

    Sep 19, 2004
    237
    Schlumpf Collection contains amongst others

    Alfa Romeo 8C 2600 Touring Spyder sn.2311226
    Alfa Romeo 8C 2900 A Pinin Farina Spyder/Coupé sn.412004
    Alfa Romeo 8C 2900 B sn.412032
    Alfa Romeo 8C 2900 B sn.412034
    Alfa Romeo C52
    Alfa Romeo Tipo 412 sn.412152
    Amilcar CGS
    Amilcar Monoplace Decalee CO
    Ballo 3/8 LC
    Ballot 2 LT
    Bentley 8 Litre Saloon
    Benz Phaeton Type Velo 1896
    BNC 527 GS
    Brasier KD Coupe Chauffeur
    Bugatti T101 Berline prototype sn.101500
    Bugatti T101 Cabriolet sn.101503
    Bugatti T101 Coupe Gangloff sn.57454-3
    Bugatti T13 Biplace Course sn.2385
    Bugatti T251 monoplace by Colombo sn.251001
    Bugatti T30 Torpédo
    Bugatti T32 Tank sn.4061
    Bugatti T35 A Grand Prix sn.4565
    Bugatti T35 A Grand Prix sn.4753
    Bugatti T35 B Grand Prix sn.4868
    Bugatti T35 B Roadster sn.37328
    Bugatti T35 C
    Bugatti T35 C Grand Prix sn.4928
    Bugatti T35 C Grand Prix sn.4934
    Bugatti T35 Grand Prix sn.4612
    Bugatti T37 A Grand Prix sn.37314-2
    Bugatti T37 A Grand Prix sn.37373
    Bugatti T37 A Grand Prix with Engine Type 51A sn.37350
    Bugatti T38 Roadster by Fischer sn.38404
    Bugatti T40 A Roadster sn.40673
    Bugatti T40 Sahara sn.40811
    Bugatti T43 Cabriolet sn.43173
    Bugatti T43 Grand Sport sn.43206
    Bugatti T43 Roadster by Graber sn.43258
    Bugatti T44 Coupe Fiacre by Gangloff sn.441205
    Bugatti T46 Cabriolet Letourneur & Marchand sn.46125
    Bugatti T46 Limousine by Gangloff sn.46188
    Bugatti T46 Roadster sn.46287
    Bugatti T46 S Berline by Gangloff sn.46560
    Bugatti T49 Berline Gangloff sn.49576
    Bugatti T51 A Grand Prix sn.51142 ex 4827
    Bugatti T51 Grand Prix (ex 4594) sn.51124
    Bugatti T57 C Berline Galibier Gangloff sn.57636
    Bugatti T57 Cabriolet Saoutchik sn.57417
    Bugatti T57 S Roadster Vanden Plas sn.57572
    Bugatti T57SC Coupe by Carrosserie Ghia sn.57561
    Bugatti T59/50B Grand Prix
    Bugatti Veyron
    Bugatti T35 B Grand Prix sn.4933
    Bugatti T41 Royale Coupé Napoléon sn.41100
    Bugatti T41 Royale Esders Roadster Replica
    Bugatti T41 Royale Saloon body by Park Ward sn.41131
    Bugatti T43 A Roadster sn.43288
    Bugatti T46/50 surprofilé Jean Bugatti sn.46482
    Bugatti T55 Coupe Gangloff rebuilt in Roadster sn.55225
    Bugatti T55 Coupe Jean Bugatti sn.55204
    Bugatti T55 Coupe Jean Bugatti sn.55212
    Bugatti T55 Coupe sn.55203
    Bugatti T55 Super Sport Jean Bugatti sn.55237
    Bugatti T55 Super Sport sn.55215
    Bugatti T57 C Atalante Gangloff sn.57539
    Bugatti T57 Coupe Labourdette Vutotal sn.57457
    Bugatti T57 S Atalante Gangloff sn.57481
    Bugatti T57 S Atalante Gangloff with "Aravis" type rear end sn.57471-2
    Bugatti T57 SC Atalante Gangloff sn.57383
    Bugatti T57 SC Atalante Gangloff sn.57451
    Bugatti T57 SC Cabriolet "Aravis" Gangloff sn.57543
    Bugatti T57 SC Cabriolet "Aravis" Gangloff sn.57571
    Bugatti T57 Ventoux sn.57356
    Bugatti T57 Ventoux sn.57611
    Bugatti Type Phaeton 1931
    CD Coach Le Mans
    Cisitalia D46
    Darracq 55 20/28 Coupe Chauffeur
    Delage Type F
    Delahaye 135M Coach
    Dufaux Biplace Couse 100/120 PS 1904
    Edwardians
    Ferrari 156B F1 sn.004
    Ferrari 166 F1 1948
    Ferrari 212 F2 1950 sn.0110
    Ferrari 250 GT PF Coupe
    Ferrari 250 LM sn.5975
    Ferrari 250 MM sn.0230mm
    Ferrari 312 B sn.002
    Ferrari 375 MM sn.0450am
    Ferrari 500 TRC sn.0692mdtr
    Ferrari 500/625 F2 1952
    Gordini GP Type 16 1952
    Gordini GP Type 16 1953
    Gordini Type 265
    Hermes/Mathis designed by Ettore Bugatti
    Hispano-Suiza Sport Alphonse XIII
    Hispano-Suiza J12 Cabriolet
    Horch 670 Cabriolet
    Isotta-Fraschini Type 8A Beline ex.Rodolfo Valentino
    Isotta-Fraschini Type 8a Landaulet Lancefield
    Lotus 24
    Maserati 250 F
    Maserati 300S sn.3065
    Maserati 4CL 1939
    Maserati 8 CM 1933 sn.3010
    Maserati Biplace Sport 2000
    Maserati GP 1936
    Mercedes Type 28/95 Torpedo
    Mercedes-Benz 300 SLR
    Mercedes-Benz 38/250 SS
    Mercedes-Benz 540 K Cabriolet B
    Mercedes-Benz 540 K Cabriolet by Erdmann&Rossi
    Mercedes-Benz 720 SSK
    Mercedes-Benz W125
    Monet-Goyon Torpedo Type MV
    OM 665 MM Roadster
    Panhard-Levassor 35CV Monoplace
    Panhard-Levassor Biplace Course
    Panhard-Levassor Monoposto
    Panhard-Levassor Type U1 Coupe Chauffeur
    Panhard-Levassor Type XS Berline
    Panhard-Levassor X8 Coupe Chauffeur
    Piccolo 7HP Coupe Landaulet
    Porsche 908 Langheck
    Porsche 956C
    Porsche 962C
    Renault Tonneau 1900
    Renault Type AX Torpedo
    Rochet-Schneider RS Phaeton
    Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost
    Senechal Sport Roadster
    Serpollet Type H
    Simca-Gordini 15S Coupe
    Sizaire-Naudin 12HP
    Talbot 26C GP 1949
    Talbot-Lago Grand Prix


    At a guess over a billion $ worth
     
  20. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,190
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Even considering the condition issues many of the cars there suffer from I'd say 1B $ easily.

    They seem a bit more interested in exercising some of the machines these days. They've even built a small demonstration track adjacent to the museum.
     
  21. JWeiss

    JWeiss Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 18, 2010
    1,049
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    JWeiss
    Geez, did they just have a road built from the back door of the Bugatti factory right to the museum?
     
  22. stevenwk

    stevenwk F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2007
    5,200
    Metro Detroit
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Can you guys help me out on this?

    I believe the Schlumpf Collection had at one time the Ferrari/Pininfarina 512S prototype from 1969, and then it went to DK Engineering.

    Who owns this car now?
     
  23. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,190
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    As of last week in wasn't in Mulhouse.
     
  24. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

    Jan 14, 2007
    11,854
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Onno
    Dear Kim, slightly puzzled by this open letter to me, the PM box is open. In any case, your invitation to drive your car is very kind, I wasn't aware of it, perhaps I missed it. Neil's work on vintage Ferrari is highly regarded worldwide, and it would be very interesting to see his shop. Perhaps I can fit it into my schedule one day.

    But I have not changed my position on replicas although I am pretty sick of discussing them, and I am deeply grateful for the separate section so I can avoid going there too often.

    I still have issue with replicas using original Ferrari material, as they impact on the ever dwindling stock of old parts that could be used for original cars (which no matter how you play it should have first dibs) - not to mention the horrendous practice of destroying a car's original identity to resurrect it as a fake something else, which is still going on on a daily basis.

    But my biggest issue is the one of pretence. I cannot stand replica owners that pretend to own something which they actually do not. If one has a replica/recreation (potato/potAAto) car, one should be a man and etch it into the window pane so it is there for everyone to see. THEN one can legitimately claim to own the car only for the driving experience and aesthetics, not to try and impress with another peacock's feathers as we say in Holland.

    So far, no replica owner I have met has avoided the trap of pretending to be someone else. It would be really nice for someone not to conform to my prejudices and proving that it is actually possible to live up to their own claims (honestly, I only have it for myself!). The very fact that people tend to get angry when their car is correctly described says bundles.

    But perhaps they are out there. I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised.

    Cordially yours,


    Onno
     
  25. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    The issue of replica/reproductions being promoted as original was discussed during the lead up to the formation of the new replica sub forum which is a good first step. Hopefully this will lead up to the formation of an organization to doccument and promote replicas and reproductions for what they are. Such a "club" could serve to give these cars a place where they could be doccumented and legitimised and enjoyed in a format acceptable to all. Part of membership would be a "Ferrrari" fender decal clearly displaying what the car really is. By eliminating the "coverup" stigma this would create an atmosphere of open acceptability which would clear up much of the controversy. tongascrew
     

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