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1962 Ferrari 250 GTO, chassis #3413 To Be Auctioned In Monterey

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Rossocorsa1, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    3413 had the steering wheel it has now, or a similar one, at Prescott, 1967.

    Edit: The steering wheel appears to be leather rimmed with the 4th small hole, if it had one, covered.


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  2. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #103 miurasv, Jun 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
    3413 has rivets on the back end of the bodywork in 1967. See post 101 above. Doesn't appear to have them now.

    Front wheels appear to fill the wheel wells much more than they did and more than on other '64 bodied GTOs. Most will find all this trivial of course. The car is a 56 years old racing car and naturally things have to be replaced. I just like to see how it has evolved.



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  4. Texas Forever

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  5. Rossocorsa1

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    Fascinating pics. Thank you.
     
  6. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

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    I have two friends (well one is more an acquaintance) with S2’s who will no doubt be very curious about the results though their cars are better.
     
  7. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #107 miurasv, Jul 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
    5571GT.

    Does it have its original tipo 168/62 Comp. engine? Pictured by Bjoern and Wolfgang Singhof and posted on the barchetta website with a tipo 128F 250 GTE engine from 4477GT. Perhaps the owner just uses this one day to day and also has the original engine? Also non original 250 GT/L chassis plate.

    I wonder if this was the engine used in the 5571GT Petrolicious video with Derek Hill?


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  8. Timmmmmmmmmmy

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    I have zero on whether the engine is original or not. Quite likely that this car is fitted with a made up engine to preserve the original but who knows. Sorry can be of no help however beyond saying its in the McCaw collection which is arguably the greatest collection of cars ever assembled and originally based on the Obrist collection.
     
  9. tomgt

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  10. Terra

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    5571 GT?
     
  11. mcimino

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    That the smallest grill I've ever seen on a S1 GTO.
    I really think the current grill on the car is a hack job when compared to the original rebodied version shown in post #22.
     
  12. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    The first four pictures in the above post 107 are actually by Bjoern Schmidt and the last one by Wolfgang Singhof.
     
  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    What is the story with the fake 250 GT/L tag and 4477GT tipo 128F 250 GTE engine? Windscreen wipers face the other way from when the car was delivered to Chinetti and raced too. Is the car we see in the Derek Hill Petrolicious video the real one or a clone like the one made of 4399?
     
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  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #114 miurasv, Jul 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
    The early GTOs have the narrow radiator grille (apart from 3527?). It wasn't until 3647 that they were made bigger. 3223 and 3387 are said to have been bodied at the factory. If true then 3413 would have been the first GTO bodied by Scaglietti.
     
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  15. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #115 miurasv, Jul 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
    3413.

    The RM Sotheby's description has been updated. 3413 has a 250 GT cylinder block to GTO spec fitted to it to save the original that comes with the car. I wonder what car/chassis number this block came from? Why not use the whole spare engine to save the original 3413 bottom and top ends of the engine too?

    After they inspected the car in 2018 there is also a Classiche Report regarding the car that interested parties have to contact an RM Specialist to find the details of. Is this a new thing Classiche offer other than the Red/White Book Certifications?
     
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  16. DWR46

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    Steve: After Classiche inspects a car, they (eventually) send you a "report" that lists the items that require correction in order to achieve certification. Many times, the owner will choose to not do the "required" work, and the process stops there. Reasons could be lack of funds, not willing to remove modern safety features required for vintage racing or not willing to compromise the car as the requests are in error.
     
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  17. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #117 miurasv, Jul 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
    Thanks, Dyke. So a normal Classiche application will have to have been made and I presume the full Classiche fee is payable before the release of this report as a full inspection will have to have been carried out to ascertain what of the specification details of the car match what Classiche deem to be authentic, and the bulk of their work already done in the preparation of this report?
     
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  18. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Steve: In the older cars I have been involved with, first an "inspection fee" is paid, then we received the "report", and if the owner makes the required changes and Classiche approves them, then the final "Red Book" is issued and a second larger fee is charged.
     
  19. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Thanks, Dyke. Classiche Certification has not been applied for in the case of GTO 3413 according to RM Sotheby's in London today. They weren't aware of this Classiche Inspection report but I referred the representative to the updated information re the car on the RM website that he then read and said that it will be a case of a Classiche Inspector in the US looking over the car and commenting on details like whether the car has matching numbers. I said that this isn't something that Classiche normally do but the RM representative said that Classiche will have done it "because it's a GTO." He didn't offer to find out exact details of the referred to Classiche Report but he was emphatic that Classiche Certification has not been applied for, and if it had, the car would have had to undergo metallurgical tests at the factory.
     
  20. freestone

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    It’s probably another decision too - am I willing to exceed the already agreed to sale price. Do you think that cars these valuable go out under RM without a guaranteed minimum backed by a pre existing sale, subject to some fee sharing if the contracted buyer gets outbid? Otherwise the auction will bid up to that price. I think a few of a might already know who’s in that slot. Nothing wrong with that. Great publicity and any bidder can win. The guarantor bidder gets a discount in any event for providing certainty. RM can guarantee the seller too. Everyone wins.
     
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  21. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula Junior

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    I hear what you’re saying, but It’s a neutering of the traditional auction, IMO. The old adage suggests when one person wants something and two are available, it’s a buyer’s market...when two people want something and only one example is available, it’s a seller’s market. In the new model, one of those wanting is not participating in the auction and the frenzy that goes with it...by nature, auctions remove some logic and replace it with emotion (would you care for another cocktail?)...

    I think the seller suffers potential Dollars/Euros/GBP/etc. in exchange for that comfort of a guaranteed sale.
     
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  22. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

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    But consider it like a reserve. Just moving to the new party - who themselves can keep bidding.

    Yes, the seller loses some upside for guaranteed downside protection. Seller beware, as the auction house in at least one case I know if doesn’t tell the seller that the risk is already laid off.

    I have heard a rumor that there is a bidding guarantor already, but that’s just a rumor.
     
  23. 375+

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    The consignor would never offer the car without some sort of guarantee in place. It acts essentially like a reserve. This creates the possibility of a stronger result for the consignor and the auction company reaps millions in publicity and prestige.
     
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  24. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

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    In the case of these elite cars. Most of course may only have a reserve and not s guarantee. RM is arranging to lay off the risk of the guarantee by finding a bidder to contextually commit before the auction in return for incentives.
     
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  25. Terra

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    Not sure if the scenario you’ve described above (of a guarantor being permitted to keep bidding upward), is officially allowed by Sotheby’s though.
     

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