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1962 Ferrari 250 GTO, chassis #3413 To Be Auctioned In Monterey

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Rossocorsa1, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Makes me wonder what other corners they cut.
     
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  3. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    When raced by Albert Cecil "Jack" Le Fort.

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  5. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    Who's driving? An FChatter I hope.
     
  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Rear Number Plate Lights.

    When rebodied 3413GT is said to have retained the two circular lights for the rear number plate of the S1 1962 GTO, BUT it is pictured in period, including the 1964 Targa Florio, with the rectangular rear number plate light housing of the other S2 1964 bodied cars. It now has the two circular lights.

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  8. Brian A

    Brian A Formula 3

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    I would expect that for many buyers, part of the fun of buying a $50 million car is identifying all of these little inaccuracies and getting them fixed before heading off to the Pebble Beach Concours.

    Probably it is cars like this that Ferrari's Classique program is most valuable for.

    On the other hand, if you can afford a $50 million car, you might be buying it as-is just to decorate the garage a little bit and not care in the slightest about the inaccuracies.
     
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  9. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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  10. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    They're probably just buying the s/n and will restore/recreate it the way they want. It's not like it's 100% original...
     
  11. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    There is a demonstrable difference with 2 (3413 and 4675) of the 4 Scaglietti converted S1 cars which have the long roof. All 3 of the GTOs that started life as an S2 have a short roof. So if it has a long roof it's an S1 > S2. Also if the S2 bodied GTO you see is RHD, it's 4399, a Scaglietti conversion from S1 > S2. The other 6 S2 bodied cars are LHD.
     
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  13. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    No, Kidston brokered #3809 in 2016 and was not involved in the #4153-sale. The sale of both cars were done privately. And that`s -in my opinion- the best way to sell such treasure-cars in this days!
     
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  14. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    You didn’t follow my point. When I said I don’t see a demonstrable difference, I was speaking of values, and gave the reason for it.


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  15. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #62 miurasv, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
    My apologies for misunderstanding your point, but there is actually a demonstrable difference in the more comprehensive race histories of the earlier converted S1 > S2 GTOs over the S2 GTOs that were the sharpest tool and competitive for a shorter period due to things moving on and a more comprehensive race history may or should increase the perceived desirability and therefore the values that you speak of in your clarified post above.
     
  16. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #63 johnhoughtaling, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
    It’s ok to disagree with my point or comment on it but you still are not following my point for why I don’t see any demonstrable difference in value. Again I was commenting on my opinion on differences in values in factory rebodied and original bodies. I wasn’t conflating this with the differences in race histories of the two. My point was about s2 bodies and value, as being not demonstrably different from the subject car and an imagined second s2 on the car lot bc there are not two otherwise identical s2s on the market. Nore two otherwise identical cars with race histories of the subject car and last car to sell. My point on both was the same, and my theory that if there is a difference realized in price the biggest factory difference may be s1 vs s2 value, I also made other observations on value. I wasn’t repeating factually differences in models, only commenting on a theory about why the market wouldnt reflect an actual differences here. Makes no difference if you hold a different opinion, or does my opinion on value count. Only bidders opinions matter, but just trying to clarify one on my speculation about what someone with the money would do. It was a comment about real market not actual differences in the cars.


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  17. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    IMO the primary values are that it is V12, its a Ferrari, its rare, its the most valuable model. Within the various individual GTO the most important distinction is the bodywork but within the subset that is the Series II the most important value factors are whether the car is original as last raced or crashed and destroyed OR whether it has a significant race history. All things being equal the four 1962/3 GTO Series II rebodies had longer race histories but the three works team 1964 had shorter careers but more success so each to their own but #4675GT was known to have had a hard life. #5571GT was driven by Pedro Rodriguez and Phil Hill to a win at Daytona in 1964 so figure that to be worth up to $10 mil. more than #3413GT while others might be roughly the same price. As to whether a car was rebodied by Ferrari in period or fitted with that bodywork from new is in my opinion only the third most important value factor and would be pretty inconsequential. Now if someone took a Series I and converted it to Series II today it would chop the value in half BUT these were done by Ferrari in period so they lose no authenticity.
     
  18. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    Agree.




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  19. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I remember many, many years ago when I was looking at buying my first Mercedes, I said something about the parts being expensive. The sale guy just looked at me and said, "If you wanna run with the big dogs, you gotta lift your leg high." A GTO is like high-end art. You snooze, you lose.
     
  20. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    At this level, it doesn't matter.
     
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  21. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie
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    I would agree. It’s a 250 GTO. If you have the passion and wherewithal, go for it. You can always correct things.
     
  22. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    Furthermore, 5575 GT finished 4th OA at 1964 1000 Kilometers Nürburgring (Ecurie Francorchamps), and 5th OA at 1964 Le Mans (Ecurie Francorchamps).

    5573 GT finished 2nd OA at 1964 1000 Kilometers Nürburgring (Works), and 9th OA at 1964 Le Mans (NART).
     
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  23. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    Just FYI, the Daytona race in both 1964 and 1965 covered a 2000-kilometer distance (which took circa-Twelve Hours to complete).

    1966 was the very first running of the TWENTY FOUR HOURS of Daytona.

    During its inaugural year (1962) and the year thereafter (1963), it was a Three-Hour race.
     
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  24. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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  25. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Might the new owner enjoy researching whether the car has a correct steering wheel too and then possibly sourcing one? The one currently fitted isn't of the type usually fitted to a 250 GTO.
     
  26. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    I don`t like all this littly fuzzy things!! On an exceptional car like the GTO and for that money the owner(s) ask for them, I expect perfection no matter if all this little mistakes can be corrected!
     
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  27. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie
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    I understand what you’re saying, but if I’m a billionaire preparing to sharpen my auction paddle to make a serious run at that car, my mindset is - “do not touch that car. If/when I acquire it, I will assemble the greatest team of historians, advisors and restorers and properly address every issue correctly”.
     
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  28. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    I disagree. I'd be doing my due diligence/homework/research/engaging historians etc BEFORE I made a decision to bid on the car which I would also do with cars that are priced at a small fraction of this one.
     
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