12C vs 812S ( Cilindri vs Superfast)

12C --- 812S

830 HP @ 9250 --- 800 HP @ 8500
678 Nm @ 7250 --- 718 Nm @ 7000
1665 KG --- 1630 KG
8 gears --- 7 gears
48.4% - 51.6% --- 47% - 53%

On paper the best upgrade will be the transmission, the ratio will be shorter meaning more shift and more fun in the streets.

The increase in power is disappointing as the peak torque is now lower.

In top of that + 35 Kg on an already heavy sport car.

Weigh distribution is slightly better, slightly better gravity centre, slightly better cornering, but not sure it will be noticeable, specially with 35kg more to carry.

As good as the F140 is, this engine was introduced in 2003 with the Enzo (6.0 at the time)
In my opinion the best upgrade was on the 6.3 version to the FF / F12, specially on sound with the equal length.
On the 812 we had an upgrade too at 6.5L with better HP and Torque.

With the 12C we don't get that much, I am grateful that Ferrari didn't took the hybrid road for the mid front V12 lineup, but I am also disappointed that they increased the HP to look good on paper at the top torque expense.
For the weight I really hope that it's not related to a +20cm width as we can read by comparing the width data, but still +35KG in our face.


Future Ferrari V12
I hope that Ferrari will introduce a new NA V12 of 6.5+ displacement and 4 digit HP in the Laferrari replacement.
Cosworth developed in the last years a 1000HP NA V12 that revs to 11.100 RPM for Aston Martin and now a NA V16 for the new Bugatti.
It's time for Ferrari to wake up and stop using a 21 years old V12 design.

Ferrari V6
Ferrari is just using emissions regulations as an excuse. They chose to cut down 2 cylinders to add a lot of batteries, instead of sticking with their iconic F154 V8.

The F154, their best engine of the past 25 years, with a V6, while big sedans and SUV from Audi / Mercedes / BMW can still be ordered with V8s. (even the C63, a compact sedan will have a V8 again)
Ferrari and Maserati should have never given up on the V8's, if anyone should have held out, it should have been them, and they are the first ones to put it on the trash.

 

@Caeruleus11
I agree, I was hesitant between better gravity centre and better power down in RWD, specially in DCT off.
The engine side keep getting heavier, for the rear mid engine it was imo due to the increase displacement in the Speciale, then added turbo, hoses, and intercooler in the Pista (Thou I'm not sure about the intercooler location as I'm writing)

Scuderia 43/57
Speciale 42/58
Pista 41.5/58.5
296 40.5%/59.5

With mid-engine models, the front-end weight ratio is increasing.
The 1% difference between the F12 / 812 is likely due to the larger displacement, there was also a larger displacement between 599/F12 but in that case the complete transmission change is to take in consideration.
For the 12C it seems Ferrari is prioritizing comfort features over handling, preferring adding weight.
With so many people happy about the Purosangue, praising spider versions (on aluminum chassis LOL), and not minding the shift to a V6, it’s hard to expect anything but less and less sporty cars in the future.

599 47/53
F12 46/54
812 47/53
12C 48.4/51.6

 

@Solid State
Totally agree on 12C design, looks like a bubble tire lol.
I don't want to defend Manzoni, but by looking in his wiki page he seems to have been involved in every design since the FF, so in a lot of gorgeous but lately mainly disastrous ones (special mention on SP3).
What do you think of 296 GTB design? I hate the fact that it looks like it is a spider, and in top of that it doesn't have half the presence of the 488/F8.

For the gear ratio I recommend to watch the video "DRIVING DYNAMICS - FERRARI PORTOFINO M" in the media gallery (near the bottom of the page)
https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/auto/ferrari-portofino-m

 

@subirg
So explain why Ferrari complicates things with choices like a wet sump and an extended hood with the engine behind the front wheels? Cause they aim for a front mid-engine V12 that’s both a comfortable cruiser and track-capable, (though the weight limits track endurance).

But as there is sadly more customers like you than like me, they please you with spider version, sunroof and other comfort features at the handling expense.
Your comment is silly, cause why not having stopped at 360m power? 400HP is already more than enough for the street.
You seem to be the type of customer that order a spider with all the options to feel good cruising at 70km/h, I am the one who not even take a lift to save 15kg.
You're the poser, I am the driver.
And I would have nothing against the posers if they were not influencing Ferrari in the bad direction (at least if you not have a Purosangue in order, or a Roma in your garage you're not the worst.)

I agree with you on exterior and even more on the interior, they lost the Ferrari feeling they so brightly accomplished in almost all their interior until Roma.
Agree as well on the start engine button, (and even even more on the power steering (since 812) vs hydraulic ones, but again, sadly nobody care about that)

 

@jumpinjohn
Come on! Why play in safe by mentioning an imaginary AC choice that doesn't even exist and not comment on Spider, Aperta, GTS versions?

So a large part of Ferrari owners aren’t posers but they happily add almost 100kg to their F for essentially a big open sunroof?
They are so dumb they often not even realizing how much it weakens their aluminum chassis, despite heavy reinforcements.

I'm under attack cause what I say is true and it's hurt.
Most F owners (meaning most people here) just want the brand image, cruising with the yellow logo on the wheel and don't hesitate to botcher their F capabilities for a bit more exhaust sound, more attention from other people, and most of them dare despise Lamborghini owners. as you said "LOL"

 

@jumpinjohn You felt the need to attack me because my comment struck a nerve (and it clearly did). First, you tried to undermine me with a poor example (AC) to mock my point, and now you're resorting to sarcasm and exaggeration. Meanwhile, I'm just calling things as they are.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you genuinely need a pickup / Jeep, if not, don't forget to feel ashamed for that too!

Being quite busy seems the only thing we share. Tracks are great, though they can get a bit repetitive after a while. Personally, I find rallying more thrilling, but I don't have the time to dedicate to it as I’d like. And of course, rallying isn’t really relevant here—it's not like I’d ever take my F cars on a rally course anyway.

It's like the complete scandal of Ferrari switching to EPS. Probably over 90% of owners don't even realize it since they can't tell the difference between a numb fast rack and a fast hydraulic one.

 

@jumpinjohn
It's true that I was joking about the Jeep and trucks, but I don’t get why people are into them. I’ve never driven a truck in my life and never felt the need to, especially since I hated the few SUVs I test drove.

As for categorizing people, I won't deny it—that’s exactly what I did.

You seem hesitant to offend people and that’s an issue. You can’t be truly honest without occasionally offending someone. If more of us, the owners were vocal about the lack of feel with EPS, things might actually change.
I get why BMW and Mercedes only offer EPS in their M and AMG models—those are just sportier versions of regular cars, so that’s how they were designed from the start, don't like Porsche but every purist would agree that the story end with the 997.
This ESP is a tragedy, I regret it for Lamborghini, I’m sad about Maserati, and heartbroken over Ferrari. How did they decide to go this route? I mean, “no more V8s, and EPS across the whole lineup?

For the first time, I’m seriously considering buying a McLaren, probably the 750S and all because of the 296GTB, it's like they betrayed me.

 

I still want to believe that there will be a v8 again someday, maybe a decade from now, and hope a new v12 in the Laf replacement despite all the rumors against it, maybe I'm delusional.

I didn't know about the Singer Turbo, really nice looking car, and should be amazing to drive but imo not a $1M car, for the perfect manual and few more bucks I would go CarreraGT, or even FordGT.
The ideal move would be to create your own project. About 10 years ago, I had thoughts of doing something with the F136 cross-plane or the S85 because those engines deserved a much lighter body. Dropping the S85 into an i8 would have been incredible, but that would have meant cutting into the carbon chassis, and in the end, trying to fit that engine into the front of another BMW just wasn’t worth the hassle.

Alternatively, you could try converting an FF or GTC4 Lusso to RWD, but that would probably run you over $1M lol.