125 ma Drain - Mondial Light Relay Question

Check the US OM 215/81 -- it shows that relay as "relay for seat belt buzzer", so if your seat belt buzzer (or ecu) is (has been) unplugged, it might not make much difference either way. What is/has been the status of your seat belt warning light & buzzer system operation and self-test? Did the behavior change with relay vs jumper?

Is it a specialized relay (i.e., not the usual ...113 or ...101)? If you have an emailable copy of the relevant Wiring Diagram page, I'd be glad to review -- let me know if you'd like a 2nd opinion.

 

A bit off topic, but how do you pull a relay? I've tried with my hands and those suckers are in there tight. I didn't want to break anything. The Mondail fuse/realy box was flexing a bit. Do I need pliers or stronger hands?

Thanks,
Patrick

 

I am following this thread closely - I think we are about to discover something very important here.

 

Folks, I have a fuse/relay panel out of an '83 Mondian QV that I used to own. I can photograph the panel, all around, in high resolution. It might be of value to you to see this panel BEFORE you pull yours. I'm sure there are differences as the cars evolved and designs were tweaked for the different markets. This panel is from a Euro-spec car. Any interest? PM me if you'd like pictures because they will be pretty big files.

rick
'79 308GTB

 

I also have noticed a small amperage drain inherent to the design, over and above the radio. After time, the battery will drain just enough to cause the electrical system to act funny for no obvious reason, even with weird running, and somehow past a certain point the charging circuit never catches back up. I now keep a trickle charger on my car and find it very good inexpensive insurance. When I drove my car nearly everyday I did not have this problem, but if it sits for any length of time now it acts weird.

The the amperage drain can be located, I think many of the queer elecytical problems will resolve magically.

I am going to reference this thread to the Mondial Electrical system thread as well.

 

That's not the correct relay layout for a US version Mondial8 (relay T is "relay for seat belt buzzer" per 215/81). I would agree that it would be somewhat unusual for a relay to have its internal coil energized with the key "off" -- if you can get a copy of the relevant schematic page let me know.
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Yop, I noticed this in mine. When reconnecting the battery, I will hear some clicking for a little while. I have a Mondial 8 too but my fusebox was replaced about 12 years ago with a 3.2 fusebox.

Patrick

 

having looked at more schematics for the "308 popups...dancing" thread, I think the only thing that is safe to say is that when the stalk is up all the way, and the knob is rotated off, no relays should be powered.

other than that, different things happen on different models when the knob is turned and/or the stalk is lowered.

don't assume that same/similarly named relays all connect/behave the same across all models/years of cars.

don't assume the schematic is correct, even if it's for the year/model of your car.

don't be surprised when things don't make sense. For example, on the '89 328, there is a "relay for throttle microswitch" on the exhaust ecu plate. When you look at the schematic, that relay has no connection to the throttle microswitch....but if you go back to the 308qv, it does. They changed the circuit, but didn't change the name of the relay.

 

it looks like the car is behaving like the 1989 328 schematic SAYS it should, but not how the 328 actually works. Attached are two simplified schematic chunks.

The 1987 mondial schematic is like the second schem, and is how my 328 works.

In this circuit design, when the "headlight lifting relay (lo beam on)" powers, it prevents other relays from closing...most notably, the relays that raise the lamp buckets....by disconnecting a ground path to other relay coils. This lets you turn on the parking and instrument lamps without the headlamps coming up.

The published 328 schematic says that the HLR(LBO) relay is powered whenever the stalk is in the top position. The actual circuit on the car requires the stalk to be in the top position AND the stalk knob to be turned on to power the HLR(LBO) relay coil.

If you turn off the stalk knob, and moving the stalk to different positions does something, you don't have the circuit as implemented on the second schematic.

if your stalk knob was stuck closed, I assume you'd see other symptoms...unless your circuit is yet a different design from the one below or the '80/'81/? 308 as shown on the schem at http://bingo.cdyn.com/ferrari/.

if your car is actually wired like the first schematic says, then it really is a design flaw and the best fix would be to rewire it like the second one. Whether you can do that at connectors under the dash, or you'd need to yank the steering wheel, I have no idea.

Another sorta fix would be to remove the relay and jumper pin 87a to pin 30 in the socket. That may be what you described earlier, but not sure. If you want the relay in place, you could disconnect the relay coil, but leave the relay plate alone (e.g. the plate needs to stay in the unpowered position, which connects 87a to 30). The only downside to this appears to be the headlights popping up if you turn the stalk knob when the stalk is in the top position.

Looking at the '87 mondial schematic again, that's what the bridge replacement for the relay does...but either they blew it and mislabelled the terminal as 87 instead of 87a, or they wired the relay socket differently (unlikely, assuming that odd circuit board kinda thing is what's connecting stuff inside the fuse/relay box).

guess we'll have to wait a while for the answer to this puzzle though...enjoy the drive
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I don't know if this helps or confuses the situation but...

First, on my 1979 308 GTB the headlights will pop up on stalk rotation in all three positions. In the full up position this allows the parking lights to come on without the headlights.

Second, I had a current draw problem on my car when I bought it. It would drain the battery in about 4 days with the ignition switch off. I did the usual troubleshooting of disconnecting the ground lead from the battery and placing a test light between the battery and ground. I then pulled each fuse to determine the circuit with the short to ground. With all of the fuses sitting on my passenger side floor mat I still had a short to ground. A review of the wiring diagram showed that the only things that did not get power through the fuse blocks were the ignition and starter circuits. A friend told me that he had had a short in a Bosch ignition switch that had been a bear to find so I decided to look there first. Sure enough he was right. When I rotated the key in the switch slighty, the test light went out. I replaced the electrical portion of the switch and have not had a problem since.

 

Just got back from vacation and saw this thread. I have an '82 Modial 8. I do not have any relays clicking when I switch on the battery disconnect. I also have not noticed any battery drain when leaving my battery connected for a week at a time.