120 +mph lexus crash in san diego/floormats

if u got nothing else then its an emergency

putting it in neutral and hitting the ebrake or even sideswiping a guardrail is better than what happened here

 

Putting it in neutral would have solved the problem as previously stated. Every automatic car I have ever driven can be put into neutral while driving either forward or reverse in gear at any speed. Did this myself when the exact same thing happened to me on a Chevy with wet carpet mats that were partially frozen, and moved forward thereby jamming the accelerator. Was able to easily stop in a few feet after hitting 50 KMH on the lot.

They were discussing the floormat recall on the news tonight and they interviewed 3 other people that had this happen to them with Toyota products. All 3 were involved in accidents. None put their cars in neutral.

We need better driver training and stricter licensing procedures across the board. Sad, but true. I can understand panicking in the spur of the moment and having but a nano second to make a judgement call, and perhaps calling it wrong........but they were driving for a bit and talking on the phone with 911 trying to figure out what to do.

Not good at all.......shame they died.

 

Anyone who's asking why the police officer didn't put the car into neutral is failing to take the terrain of the area into account. Looking at the area on Google Street View, CA-125 in that area is a looooooooong downhill. Putting it in neutral will do nothing to slow it down, and it will actually pick up speed due to momentum. By then, the brakes were probably burned up and he was out of luck.

The Google Street View image of the area is attached; you can see what I mean.
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I'd rather be accelerated by gravity alone than be both accelerated by gravity and accelerated by a 200+ horsepower engine.

Could just be me though. . . .

 

While generating plenty of friction off of that guardrail.

But... it's reported that the Lexus has an electronic shifter that can't be forced into neutral; anyone with first-hand experience on that?

From the Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

 

Jesus fncken Christ, Lexus should have their license to design cars removed.

How many stupid marketing wankers were involved making all these stupid computer/electronic things that meant that these poor people, this family were simply doomed.

Again if Toyota do NOT change the start button functionality to be an instant OFF the world should boycott their cars. Other manufacturers will follow, but these Toyotas/Lexus cars are death traps ... am I being overly dramatic?, I don't think so

The mat has simply highlighted a flaw in their design ... fixing the mat does not solve it, there will be other reasons why DRIVERS would again need total control. Give it back Toyota!
Pete

 

What's on the other side of the mountains/hills? What if he crashed into the mountains? I wonder how much gas was in the car. If he ran out of gas, it would slow down as well.

I agree completely with what Jason (TexasF355F1) said:

We really don't need to push a button to start a car, how difficult is it to turn a key?

 

While an instant off switch may have prevented this accident the manufacturer also has to consider that a readily available off switch could accidently be depressed causing drivers to lose power brakes and power steering and leading to a crash. It is a balancing of risks. In balancing the risks they may have decided to go with a three second hold to eliminate this risk while allowing drivers to cut off the ignition. Of course, it doesn’t do the driver much good if he is not informed of this function.

Dr. Strangelove: Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you keep it a secret! Why didn’t you tell the world, EH?

Ambassador de Sadesky: It was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday. As you know, the Premier loves surprises.
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After the above post I did a Google search for Lexus start button and the one pictured does indicate it is also a stop button, but does not indicate that you have to hold it in. The first picture is the one I downloaded and the second is my photoshop version of something a little more descriptive.
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Interesting:

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/2007-lexus-es-350-c5313.html

http://www.wate.com/global/Story.asp?s=6459687

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1023879_toyota-denies-unintended-acceleration-issues-on-tacoma

Not just floormats?

 

What about Audi's? They have that electronic e-brake, did the lexus? From what I've heard the audi electronic e-brake is complete crap and has a huge "shop visit" to fix it.

All the electronic gizmos are part technological advances and part all the eco-friendly crap.

 

The Lexus has a foot-mounted parking brake that is not electronic.

 

If in fact someone could not have shifted that the car into neutral I will be very surprised. The police forum link does not say one way or the other that he tried to do that, ergo, no proof this is the case.

Not saying that would be probable, just that I would be very surprised if it is, as it defies all logic and safety concerns. Reaching down and grabbing the floormat is also very easy to do and one of the first things you would try, after checking the accelerator pedal visually or with your toe. Been there......like I said.

Not beating up on the driver, please understand that as we all react differently during emergencies, but if in fact this is/was the case and you cannot shift it into neutral, then the floormat safety notice is just a coverup for a bigger problem, other than poorly thought out floor mat design. Go to your Lexus dealer and take one for a test drive to see if you can shift into neutral while rolling at 60 MPH.

FWIW going downhill is irrelevant for once you remove power to the wheels you stop accelerating and braking action, even metal on metal, becomes somewhat effective as does swiping the guardrail in conjunction.

Either his training failed him at a crucial moment, or Toyota is engaged in a big coverup of a crucial design flaw. Remember the "unintended acceleration" scandal with Audi in the 80's......? That was proven to be driver error all the way, which is probably what you have in the examples listed above in regards to Toyota products........very, very sad if it is the case here.....even worse if it is not.

 

I don't know if floormats alone could have caused that much of a mess.

No brakes?. I think the car was _____ed from day one.

 

I have been in Toyota service for 15+ years, we do 120-150 service cars a day. I can recall 4-5 instances of customer complaints about loss of accellerator control.

1. 2004 era Camry, found acorns in upper intake area, they would shift into cable linkage area. removed, no other issues.

2. 2005 era Corolla. 3 layers of floor matts. aftermarket matts on top of factory matts. The lip in the gas pedal area was turned up and showed wear from the pedal. removed matt, no issue.

3. 1 or 2 customer complaints about v-8 Sequia and Landcruiser throttle stick. Never varified, history codes for thottle position. Ecu and stepper motor/thottle housing have redundant sensors to prevent false throttle activation.

I do not think all of the info is out on the Lexus crash. It was a loaner from a Lexus dealer. Driver was unfamilliar with veh. ( not same modle and his ) incorrect model matt was installed in the car.

I would not be so fast to condem Toyota/lexus for not doing the right thing. They have spent a ton of $$$ in the past to keep their owners happy. I do not know of any other manufacture who would offer to by back a 7-14 year old truck for a frame corrosion concern. Offer assisance of motors for an oil gelling concern,well beyond the 5/60000 powertrain warr, all of which point to consumers lack of maintence

As of this last friday Toyota has noted to its dealers to inform them to;
1. Remove any aftermarket mats in the driver floor area. if the car is in for service remove said matt and inform customer, note on invoice and stowe in customers trunk.
2. Recommend to remove factoy matts on concern models and place in trunk.
3. If customer cooses to leave OEM matt installes. make sure it is fully secured in is retaing clips. Offer to semi-permanently install; punch 2 holes in rear lip of matt and wrap a zip-tie through matt and around seat track mounts.
4. all above should be completed on any dealer in stock unit new, used, rental, demo, or loaner.

 

I think sometimes that kind of case,the driver should have a presence of mind to prevent or it will not get any worst accident.

 

This has been an issue on many cars for many years. I pointed this out to Ferrari on my 308 and they came up with retainers which were S hook pins with clamps. The pin went into the carpet and the clamp grabbed the mats.

Porsche and BMW addressed this years ago with positive locking devices.

IMHO Toyota should have dealt with this a long time ago.

 

I checked my Tacoma when the Notice went out, two factory floor clips fasten the mat on the drivers side, should work unless unhooked or defeated, it's hard to get it off the hooks to vacuum it....

 

From yesterday's Tacoma newspaper:

Witnesses pull woman from car before she dies

"A 40-year-old woman was killed Thursday afternoon after a fiery crash near Lake Tapps. The woman was driving a 2008 Lexus at an extremely high rate of speed when it left the road....and crashed into a tree. Witnesses pulled her from the car before it was engulfed in flames. She was pronounced dead at a Tacoma hospital. There were no signs of braking...the crash was being investigated"

 

Are you serious? This has to be something other than a floormat problem....

My best to this womans family.

 

I had my throttle stuck on a modded v8 93 grand cherokee. It was very hard not to panic.

My finance and I were on a jeep jamboree in Indiana and we were on a relatively difficult trail. It required full throttle up a steep hill where everyone ahead of us, maybe 2/3 the group was outside of their jeeps watching. After I sucessfully got to the top, the brakes could not stop the jeep at all and I was driving right towards the crowd. I honestly thoughts I was going to run them over. There was no where to go/turn. The all weather floormats had slipped over the gas pedal.

So I coming freakin barrelling up this hill, front and rear axles locked, exhaust echoing off the trees, super swampers tossing mud everywhere, banging the rev limiter...and once I realized that the breaks weren't working I did the only thing I could think off. I grabbed the shifter and SLAMMED it into PARK. At that point I didn't give a rip about the jeep, just not running over 20 people. So the jeep stops and the engine is still screaming and I turned it off. It happened really fast for me, maybe only a few seconds but it felt like forever. I turned and look at Nikki and she didn't even realize what had happened.

The thing that always suprised my was that the breaks didn't make a dent in my momemtum. I swear my ass was literally out of the seat pressing on the break pedal. It was probably a combination of poor pads and mud. It is hard not to loss composure in a situation like that.

 

shame the car wasn't a stck he coulda just mashed the clutch down and blown the engine. RIP

 

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerindex?id=8990979

Nice to see some real journalism...

 

another reason a 360 cs or a 430 scud or any of those barebones are a good idea. No floormats to kill you.

 

Hahahahha...riiiight, but poor driving skills can.

Apples to Oranges, it's so simple to take the floormats out too