120 +mph lexus crash in san diego/floormats | FerrariChat

120 +mph lexus crash in san diego/floormats

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by dmaxx3500, Sep 16, 2009.

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  1. dmaxx3500

    dmaxx3500 Formula 3

    Jul 19, 2008
    1,027
    heard on the radio today,a loaner lexus crashed ,killing 4 on board,driver was an off duty cop,going 120+ into an intersection hit an other car,driver was on phone with 911 ,were he said no brakes[witnesses said fire was coming out of the wheels,like driver had brakes full on],prelim says dealer installed floormats jammed gas pedal on,,car had no ignation key just a pushbutton start,,sad,but my only thought is why didn't he put the shifter into nuetral ?
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  2. agup48

    agup48 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 15, 2006
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    That's a sad story. No brakes seems a bit odd though. And if the floormats were the problem, can't you just reach down and take 'em off, or at least kick it around. Sad to hear, but not sure I am buying the story.
     
  3. Akira

    Akira Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2003
    440
    Why didn't he put the car into Neutral? Or turn the car off? Sad story but it could have been prevented.
     
  4. kosmo

    kosmo Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2008
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    #5 kosmo, Sep 17, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2009
    sad and strange the COp didnt react better considering their training.
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Brakes are stronger than the engine but in strange car, this could be really confusing.

    Floor mats can do this.
     
  6. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
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    A similar case happened in France 4 years ago with a renault Vel Satis, the owner called the cops and said the accelerator was jammed to the floor and asked them to open the road for him on the highway where he was when it happened. He said brakes werent stopping the car at all.

    They managed to stop the car somehow ( i think Renault technician was brought in the phone convo..). but then Renault expressed doubts as the car didnt show any defects. People later said that the owner was probably caught on speed camera and decided to play this card.

    At the time, every auto technician who were consulted said that this shouldnt happen as brakes are at least twice as powerful as the engine.

    Sad story. RIP. Wonder what kind of litigation will result in this.
     
  7. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Six Time F1 World Champ
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    So sad. RIP

    I'm surprised they don't install velcro links on the floorboard and floormats, or do they and they just weren't installed?
     
  8. 355lover

    355lover Rookie

    May 21, 2009
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    Smyrna, TN
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    James
    The floormats in my humble Lincoln LS have a ring in the lower-outer corner of each mat into which a hook coming up from the floor latches to the mat, keeping the mat from sliding forward. Sad story indeed.
     
  9. futureowner

    futureowner Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2006
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    Brookfield, WI
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    Thad
    +1, my acura has the same thing. You would have thought that with their training he would have reacted better however, you can't say what impact panic has on the situation.
     
  10. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2006
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    #11 2NA, Sep 18, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
    I experienced a similar situation years ago. A new customer brought in a car for service (Series 2 Jag XJ6). I got in and without looking too carefully, started it up to bring it around the building. It had thick aftermarket mats that were somewhat askew but not unlike other similar cars I had seen. As I rounded the building (going perhaps 2 mph) I stepped on the brake pedal and the car surged forward. I pressed harder and it went faster. The open shop door and several of my co-workers were dead ahead (less than 20 feet away). I turned quick and put it into the back of another customer's car narrowly missing several others. Fortunately I wasn't going fast and the damage was covered by insurance.

    The cause was a combination of a broken accelerator pedal (not mentioned by the customer) that had gotten too close to the brake pedal and fouled by the damned floor mat.

    Needless to say, I check these things now.

    The brakes aren't necessarily stronger than the engine (didn't seem to be in my case) and once they got hot and faded they would be nearly useless.

    I wonder if he had relaxed and taken his foot off the brake pedal if the car might have slowed down.
     
  11. konatown

    konatown F1 Rookie

    Jul 16, 2009
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    There has been a TSB out for a couple years concerning this type of issue in the Toyota Camry and Lexus ES350. And a recall was issued as well. It all had to do with all-weather floormats being installed on top of the original carpet mats, being too high and getting the pedals caught in the grooves on the mat.

    But this car was a dealer loaner and had only carpet installed, from what I gather. The porter or service adviser or who ever last checked in and released that loaner for the customer's use is going to a lot of this brought down on them, though.

    Really is a tragic accident that could have very easily been avoided.
     
  12. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
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    #13 parkerfe, Sep 18, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
    Maybe some of those case will come my way... ;)
     
  13. agup48

    agup48 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #14 agup48, Sep 18, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
    My mom's 99 Lexus has the same thing close to the seat, as do all our other cars.
     
  14. cletus

    cletus Karting

    Feb 7, 2006
    249

    A LOT of people do not understand that you can shift into neutral while rolling down the road. I have mentioned this to a few customer's before and they look at me like I am crazy.......

    I too have had the unpleansant feeling of putting on the brakes and the car accelerating from one of those plastic/rubber all weather mats on top of the carpet ones. It is not a very good feeling, especially when you are in someone else's car!!
     
  15. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2003
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    Yup, happened to me when I was running an errand in a friend's Nissan 300ZX (he wasn't in the car). Thank god I could shift the car to neutral. Pretty scary even then, as the engine revved and revved and I thought it was going to blow until I switched the ignition off. Happened several times till I got home and my friend showed me how the floormats tended to bunch up and jam the accelerator.

    I can't believe this guy didn't shift into neutral. Or Park, even. Surely a spin out would be better than a full-on crash. And did the engine really overpower the brakes and parking brake? Maybe he could have also tried to turn off the ignition?
     
  16. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    FIRST, RIP.

    Now, I hate to say it - but I sincerely hope this does not turn into another one of those AUDI cases of (my brakes failed and the car went to full throttle out of control). It was later proved (after the AUDI NA sales were almost ruined) that some people were just panicked and mashed down on the gas while in gear.

    I also freely admit that this happened to me in an L-82 1970s Corvette - was doing fast shifts with the clutch and just a momentary lift on the throttle...the clutch foot heel pushed the mat up and over the go peddle, giving me a "little moment". Turning off the ignition put things right.
     
  17. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Veteran
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    I've never driven a modern car whose brakes would not slow/stop the car even when floored. I know this because of doing torque converter stall launches in automatics, and all of my sticks have seen the track, and to bed the brakes I accelerated while pressing on the brake. The only thing that makes sense is the floor mat behind the brake pedal, preventing complete actuation of the brakes.

    My Cayman S would cut the throttle (electronic throttle) if both brake and the gas were pressed for more than 2 seconds. Made bedding pads more challenging.
     
  18. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2006
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    Does this in my 300zx all the time. I usually move the mat out of the way but after a few miles it gets oriented back to it's position under the gas pedal. When the turbo kicks in and it's floored due to the mat it can overwealm you and for a second or two it gets scary.
     
  19. bounty

    bounty F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2006
    7,769
    San Diego, CA
    Neutral and then E-brake combo might have prevented this...no?
     
  20. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    Certainly a better choice than your cell phone, sadly for all involved.
     
  21. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Six Time F1 World Champ
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    I remember an episode of 'Rescue 911' where a girl's car (i want to say a VW of some kind) would not stop accelerating. She could not turn off the car, change gears, and the brakes would not work. I don't remember how they got the car stopped, but it was with help from the highway patrol.

    It really sounds like the guy may have just lost his cool and instead of taking a second to think he made a horrible mistake.
     
  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    A friend of mine had a crash almost about a year ago. He built the engine etc himself, it was fine for 6 months or so in the same spec, daily driven 450hp thing.

    Coming back from a drift day on a back road, his throttle became stuck and very quickly he was doing 140mph+. Sharp corner coming up and he put the brakes on but no luck. He crashed at 120+, over small river (whatever you call those things next to a road), through a metal gate finally coming to a rest t-boned by a tree (drivers side).

    He was very lucky to hop away with a badly hurt foot and arm. The car was a 20 year old nissan 240.

    Me and some friends all asked why he didn't put the car in neutral and yank on the handbrake. He said it's very simple, you don't think about that sort of stuff with split seconds to go. He did think about it halfway through passing the gate though:D.
     
  23. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    Have we considered the possibility that this one may have been a joy ride gone very bad? What I mean is that maybe he had it going about 120 before he tried to lift at all, and then the panic set in full force.
     
  24. swilliams

    swilliams Formula 3

    Jun 14, 2006
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    I think newer Lexus vehicles have that stupid peg like my s550 has no shifter. Everything is electric. I'm pretty sure if you select neutral going down the road it has a safety mechinism that will not let the car shift into neutral. I think it just bings at you. I will try mine tonight and see if it will let me go into neutral. I'm pretty sure if the cop was driving or in the car he knew about neutral and tried that before crashing.

    This is a sad case..
     

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