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12 years old Belts....look!

Discussion in '308/328' started by 11506apollo, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,449
    Canada
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    Newman
    Maybe im the minority here but I like being able to see the belts, reach down and give them a tug now and then. If owners were coming into my shop with bent valves from chipmunks and other rodents stuck in the cam belts I might be convinced but it hasn't happened yet. Dropping a socket or wrench down there during a service is another story but Im careful and if im adjusting a carb I have a VERY good grip on the screwdriver!
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,949
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    The additional covers were found to be as guilty of keeping things in as keeping them out. They quit using them because they were ineffective.

    Just another false sense of security.
     
  3. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2013
    808
    Tulsa, OK
    Yeah those idiot engineers at Porsche. Not only did they design a crap tensioning system that adjusted for the lengthening of the belt as the engine heated up but they perpetuated their crap design over the life of the model from 1977 to 1995 just to spite themselves. SMH

    The tensioner on my 928 was just fine as confirmed by my ownership after the repair using the original piss-poor tensioner for another 60,000 miles without incident.

    The points I was trying to make were that belts of this type can break and that in my situation visual inspection of the belt was not sufficient to identify its condition.




    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  4. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2013
    808
    Tulsa, OK
    So what exactly is the service interval in miles/years for 308/328 timing belts that you are recommending based upon your experience?


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  5. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
    5,372
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    James Moran
    As do I. Was surprised to feel a sloppy belt from a seized tensioner pivot.
     
  6. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,896
    New England/FL
    Whatever you are comfortable with.
     
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  7. wrxmike

    wrxmike F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 20, 2004
    5,408
    Full Name:
    Michael
    I suspect that the majority of belt failures are the result of something else failing first - tensioner bearing ( I've had an OEM one fall apart while removing it), a piece of debris damaging a belt ( found a hole in a belt, with a matching mark in the lower pulley, probably caused by a pebble thrown up from the road ) or oil or coolant leaks degrading the belt material.
    And I wonder how many 308's with belt failures are cars that have had their engines detailed with a high pressure cleaner, degreaser and WD 40.

    And I couldn't resist:
    If you are confined to home with the coronavirus it might be a good time to tackle that belt and tensioner replacement.
     
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  8. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    2,549
    Tallahassee, FL
    Physics and chemistry don't care about your comfort.
     
  9. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,896
    New England/FL
    No offence Thorn but that's just a really ridiculous comment. Comfort, in the sense I meant it (obviously), has to do with understanding and accepting the consequences of your action. Track your car? How hard will you go into the next turn? How late will you brake? The physics is the same for everyone, but we all have different comfort levels and risk tolerance.
     
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  10. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Sep 3, 2002
    5,272
    Toronto / SoCal
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    Rob C.
    Agreed but comfort is rarely rational either.

    I think the answer of whatever you are comfortable with is actually one of the best. Reality is that we can put out all the facts and science proving one point but there will always be a group that think the factory knows best and will follow them regardless of contrary information put forwards. If you truly believe the factory knows all then that is your reality and you should follow that.

    Enjoyment of these cars is spoiled if every noise or acceleration breeds an inner panic of an expensive failure. Not to mention fearing putting mileage on so as to not diminish a cars value. These people do not own their cars rather the cars own them. I could not imagine being a slave to my car like that and have zero interest in being like that. My Ferrari is a toy. I don’t consider it part of my net worth and it will sell for whatever it sells for when the time comes. In between is a fun adventure with no guarantees.
     
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  11. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2013
    808
    Tulsa, OK
    If you guys wrote the owners manual for these cars it would be pretty brief - “drive it as you see fit and service it whenever you feel it is necessary” which may work for 10% of your owners that have some relevant mechanical experience to be able to exercise their judgement but the other 90% would drive it until it broke then come back to you to warrant the repair :)




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  12. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    I agree with this.
    I would also add that "not every leak is worthy of fixing"
     
  13. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2001
    9,835
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    The factory 2 piece bearing falls apart every time you remove it from the shaft IF the inner race sticks on the shaft. That is quite … normal. It also means you have to replace it, not just put it back.
     
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  14. Nino1964

    Nino1964 Karting

    Aug 14, 2015
    168
    North Georgia
    Having experienced timing belt failure, I will abide by manufacture"s recommendations.
     
  15. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,416
    TX//Mexico/UK
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    Mike 996
    Can't argue with that...whatever you're comfortable with! :rolleyes:
     
  16. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    2,549
    Tallahassee, FL
    John, c'mon now... one might as well say they are 'comfortable' changing their oil every 10 years/100K miles. I mean - ok, if you're comfortable screwing up your engine - well, I can't argue with what makes you comfortable. But I can say that such an oil schedule is factually madness.
     
  17. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    29,813
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    Tommy
    He's the expert...
     
  18. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
    7,896
    New England/FL
    Non sequitur.
     
  19. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    2,549
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    And the Miata comparison wasn't a fallacy? ;)
     
  20. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,896
    New England/FL
    You win! :)

    By the way, how are you doing down there? We were in Jupiter from Jan 1 but left Tuesday. We just weren't "comfortable".
     
  21. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    2,549
    Tallahassee, FL
    So far, life in Tallahassee isn't much different for us personally. Less traffic is nice, but oddly the ratio of crazy drivers is now higher. Like 2:5 instead of the normal 1:20... even buying groceries isn't that bad if you know where to shop and where not to.

    Shop business has slowed overall, but I've had some longer tickets already scheduled. So while some guys are competing for the next brake job, I've been doing 2-day transmission jobs. I honestly hope for a bit of a break in the work, as they have canceled all vacation time and I'm dearly in need of one physically... 10 months is a long time to go without a few days off.

    Eerily quiet though. Like it feels the day after a hurricane.

    Hope you made it out of Jupiter safely to your destination. Come back when the madness settles down, ok? :)
     
  22. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    Dec 7, 2003
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    I ran mine for 100k miles, then I turned them around and ran them for another 100k. I took them off a 3rd time, turned them inside out and have been running for years without problems. I also buy used motor oil. There's no point in spending money that doesn't need to be spent!
     
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  23. 11506apollo

    11506apollo Formula 3
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    Oct 16, 2008
    1,859
    TX CO
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    Claudio
    As I wrote in my original post, I am not trying to, and nor I will ever, influence your position on belt life or changing frequency
    I only wanted to post, what I think was a significant data point for 308 owners
    You do whatever makes you feel good
    I dont give a rat's a$$ for your attempts to ridicule the subject, like the previous post
    I have better things to do than to pay attention to "would be clowns" on this otherwise nice website
     
  24. JohnnyTS

    JohnnyTS Formula Junior

    Jun 3, 2012
    790
    just outside JHB, RSA
    Full Name:
    John
    Nice belt thread guys ! can clearly see you guys need to blow off some steam !

    cheers
    John
     
  25. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Nov 1, 2005
    1,826
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    Andy
    Actually most Ferrari owners do change their oil too frequently...
     
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