Has Ferrari Lost It's Luster?

And when you see the kind of luxury they sell...not even a clown would want to wear it

 

Honestly, not the point. At 3 times the price you should expect that. But Porsche today is the same Porsche as the 80's. Its an SUV company that makes a few good sports cars. I would say that means "its lost its luster".

 

To paraphrase Vigna, Porsche is now an SUV company that also makes a few sports cars.

They're probably good SUVs. They're still SUVs.

 

I am not talking about money.

Yes, he turned it into a cash cow, but he sold the soul of the company in the process, and to me that killed the marque.

I don't have the source but I recall reading years ago that Ferrari made more money selling merchandise and schwag than cars.

I liked it better before every car came with an automatic transmission (Yes, they all have a button that says AUTO), did not come with multi-year warranties, and offered multiple expensive comfort options. Car lifters, Apple Play, Shields, radios, cosmetic carbon treatments, cup holders. I could go on. Pfft

 

Those lame and overrated 993 Porsches? No F way. The 718 RS Spyder is epic and after the 918 and a GT3 manual these P cars deliver.

 

Porsche- Lost its luster? They make more than a few good cars. They make some of the best, most involved and most durable drivers cars that are actually used for the purpose they were made.

 

And I forgot to mention this. Did the brand really need an SUV??? That killed any shred of hope I had for them.

I couldn't believe when Porsche started making SUV's and 4-doors, I even saw Panameras with scripts on the side that said "Diesel." A Diesel Porsche and they are proud of it.

How does a Ferrari SUV help its luster? I used to proudly wear this t-shirt often starting in the 90's. Now Ferrari is just a big a joke as Porsche.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

It doesn’t help its luster at all. It is an abomination of a direction and absurd that they choose to put a v12 is that and not properly address the future v12 line and v6 hypercars. How backwards can it be.

 

I grew up as a Mercedes Benz guy. While I loved my 300SL's I was never disappointed with the fact that I could not afford an "Alloy GullWing". I et owners who could afford them and found them to be enthusiasts just like me! I will never forget the "fun" I had in '88 or '89 when with my 1st MB, a '62 300SL RO, I beat the legendary 250 California Spider of Bill Marriot in a prestigious Concours d'Elegance. I still have the trophy. recently I was the guest of an old friend at Cavallino this year. He allowed me to sit in his spectacular 1964 250 GTO which had won Best of Show at the event in 2022. I was incredibly happy for him while knowing that never in life would I ever be able to afford a car like that!! At the end of the day, I believe that the goal of car enthusiasts should be to find a car or cars that they really like and can afford, keep them , drive them while enjoying the friends you make along the journey. Car companies are in business to make $ and thus do what they can to be as profitable as they can be. I have found 1 Ferrari that I love, and I am grateful and proud to own it. The fact that others have cars that are more powerful, rarer, more beautiful, more valuable, etc, etc is of no significance to me. I am happy to be able to see those cars in person and perhaps meet some of their owners. I treasure the ability to find a car or a few cars that I can own, drive and enjoy for an extended period of time. I love the Ferrari I own and will never be able to get an allotment for others I might like. I am cool with that!








Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Yes. But mostly they make SUVs.

 

Not everyone would hold this same value as I do but I love all vehicles. Sports, coupes, cabrios, sedans, estates, minivans, EV, suv, hyper. So many different packages and ways to express the passion. I feel like true car nuts get this. I therefore do not have animosity towards a manufacturer who embraces many different styles. It’s not sacred and set in stone tablets. If lotus had made an suv that was worthwhile I’d be interested despite it being “out of character”. I love that VW made SUV’s and now we get so many varieties with unique personalities. The urus is one of my fav owned vehicles. I know other car nuts that have exotics who say the same.
Now Ferrari putting the v12 in the Puro is awesome (fugly looks aside). But the halo F80 without the v12? Come on that’s a disgrace.

 

^^^ this absolutely. I soured on Porsche (lost their luster) way back when they decided to quit racing and put the money into their SUV project. Up until then I was able to tell my "car friends" that I owned a Porsche because they only put their money and expertise into sports cars. What Porsche learned on the track almost always made it into their production cars.

 

Times change. Human nature doesn’t- people don’t like change. The cars some of us hate help pay for the research and development of the cars we love. Financially profitable companies are in a better position to deliver the products we love- don’t spite your nose to… There are so many older cars that were junk (or ugly) in their day and are now largely forgiven because they’re classic- LOL. Importantly, many of the changes we don’t like are driven by crazy regulations- which also adds to the dreaded weight. Also- Manual transmissions cannot handle today’s elevated horsepower. I have owned numerous Ferraris and Porsches from the 80’s to present. New cars today are largely made much better than in the past while being infinitely more complicated. And I don’t miss the sticky bits melting or the awful factory paint jobs or the oil leaks of the past. And for those that collect paperweights- none of that matters.

Enjoy the good while knowing we are blessed to choose the ones we like.

 

Gotta go where the market is IMHO. The Macan is their biggest seller, and the market demand pushed them off of EV’s with the dismal sales totals for the Taycan. The Panamera is also lagging, mostly because you don’t buy a Porsche to get a family sedan. Overall agree with the sentiment that it’s less flashy, and you’re not the only one to have one in your neighborhood, but I’m also not afraid to park it anywhere, go to the market, or tool around without any problems.

I do wish they’d simplify their line so things made more sense. There are websites helping prospective buyers to know which options you really want and need versus all the other stuff clogging the selector, wish they’d do more bundling options to simplify that. They should also offer exhaust pipe options to ad some richness to their sound instead of making owners shop ones on their own. Other than that, it’s great to sit in a car solidly built that you’re not afraid to drive, service or fix. BTW, Ferrari are and will be the prettiest and most provocative cars, loved having mine, but the party it drug along with it as a DD was always a concern.

 

I've never driven an SUV that I liked. Physics. No idea why anyone would prefer them to a sedan or a wagon.

My animosity is mostly because they've become so ubiquitous, a reflection of consumer preferences that I find mysterious. If you want an SUV you're spoiled for choice. If you want a sedan or wagon (in my case, one big enough to fit my wife and three young daughters) your choices are extremely limited.

As for Ferrari or Porsche making one, clearly they're commercial successes. But I think they are antithetical to the sportscars for which these brands are known.

 

This might be true in Lotus's case - they desperately need a cash cow. It's not true for Ferrari. I'm sure the SUV will be very profitable, but they were plenty profitable without it. I highly doubt that the sportscars will get bigger R&D budgets because the PS exists. We can't know the counter factual, but I'd expect any additional profits would be invested in growth or distributed to shareholders.

Porsche is somewhere in the middle, but closer to Ferrari than Lotus. It's not like their sports cars are loss leaders. I'm sure Porsche management expects the sports car divisions to be profitable in their own right, albeit at lower margins.

This is a misperception. The average driver might abuse the clutch, but it's certainly possible to build a transmission that can handle the torque.

 

Visibility
Capability
Mass/safety

just a few reasons

 

Never got the visibility argument, I can see just fine out of a sedan. But yes, I hear that a lot.

As for capability, if you need to tow or carry seven passengers or go off road, then yes, an SUV makes sense. Many SUV owners likely use them in these ways, and I can't fault that. But I'd guess they're in the minority of SUV drivers.

As for safety credentials, those are mixed. More mass will help in a head on collision, but such accidents are rare. It won't help much if you hit a solid object (barrier, tree, etc.) which is more common. It won't hurt either.

However, in most emergency scenarios, I'd prefer to have less mass, a lower center of gravity, and less width. If I can shed a few extra miles per hour before impact or swerve to make it a more glancing blow, that will often be of more benefit than carrying a few hundred extra kilos into the impact.

And then there's the rollover risk - no small deal.

Personally, I feel much safer with my girls in an S-Class than I would if they were in a G-Wagon.

 

Practicality- especially for a family- storage space vs sedan.

Drive an electric Macan Turbo aggressively and you will understand why it is so effective.

 

That's fair. For what it's worth, I'd bet I can get more in our S-Class than in many SUVs (including three car seats in the back). But certainly the bigger SUVs have that much more space. If you need it, you need it.

I'm sure your Macan is outstanding. I haven't driven one, but I've driven ICE Macans and Cayennes, and they're extremely well built and well engineered. That seating position and suspension travel is just not for me. To each his own, I guess!

 

The Macan turbo is not my sports car. I have Ferraris, Porsches and an MC20 to fill that void.

 

I know you're a genuine car guy, don't worry. Sounds like an amazing stable. What are your favorites?

My Lusso is the first car I've ever owned with more than two seats (if you don't count my wife's sedan). I held out until we had our third kid.

My philosophy has always been to make the most of every mile behind the wheel. But full disclosure: I'm blessed with a short and idyllic commute. If I was racking up miles sitting in traffic, I might optimize differently.

I'm also aware that I'm a bit nuts.

 

Favorites: 812GTS, GT3 Manual (with numerous Dundon upgrades) & MC20- front/ rear & mid engine. I also love my 2019 Speedster which is a convertible GT3 in a Speedster body (with Dundon upgrades). There is no single favorite. They all doing something great. I will add a 296 in time.

 

I've never driven a SUV. I plan to keep it that way.

Joe

 

Some great choices in there. I like the variety too.