The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

All I know is that this car will one day come to market and I’d be bowled over if it fetched anything close to the ones without controversy.

 

Not worth the time or effort to respond.

 

Piper DP0003 is a replica and should not be spoken of in the same vain as one of the originals. Hence, it will probably only fetch a small fraction of what a real P4 without controversy will. Although no Ferrari product, DP0003 is for sure an interesting creation and its long controversy certainly produced some attraction and interest on the market.

And the following statement has some merit:

As said by @lgs above, DP0003 and it's story has been prominent amongst the Ferrari Community for years and has stirred great interest. So after a debate of over a decade, the car is accepted as being a replica, but DP0003's story and its careful transformation to make it look like the real thing has made it very famous and a car in its own right. It does have a real Ferrari 3 litre 312 F1 36 valve engine and a chassis nicely built by Silvano Cantelli to P4 plans (albeit with an unFerrari like way of mounting the engine the chassis was not originally built to mount) which no other replica has apart from DP0002 (Piper's non Ferrari number 0900). DP0003 is certainly worth more than the most valuable replicas today, but what is it worth in today's market?

 

Normally things are worth whatever the market will bear. Or in lieu, whatever the buyer and seller will agree to.

Economics 1, or primary school education: I'll trade you my Babe Ruth card for your complete collection. Deal, no deal. That, is worth in any market

Disclaimer:

This statement, due to the litigious / controversial attitude / walking on thin ice of this thread, and related observations, it does not cater / troll, spam,
to anyone in particular, politically, religiously, sports teams, sects, or anything else that you may relate to, and potentially find abhorrent / offensive in its content.

Regards, Alberto

 

If it would ever appear on the market in the future the most just conclusion would be for Ferrari to seize it and crush it as a replica.
Seeing the ways by which its' owner has attempted to pass it off as real for more than 20 years, that would seem to be a victory for karma.

 

You are quite right Dave, but the profound question was "the worth".

On the other hand, yes it ought to be crushed, but there are so many more that Ferrari has not moved a finger about, and how many fakes are out there? 10, 20, 100?
Even if not for sale, and a world wide 'known' fact of its location. A spot of brouhaha I would imagine. Or not.


I find it near to impossible, specially with the ID of the owner

PS. There is a very enterprising fellow here on f-chat that has reproduced a BMW 507 quite faithfully, components and all. Home made by himself. Any news from BMW?
And BMW, does have cojones.

 

Ferrair themselves certified a replica..they have no leg to stand on..

 

Ferrari themselves have had replica(s) in their pavillion, or not?

 

didnt I hear that JG was offered 10 million for 0846..and turned it down

 

He can claim any offer he wants. Doesn’t mean it’s legit/true.

 

The idea of paying multiples of what a true *accurate* tool room copy would cost would not reflect well upon the would-be purchaser's ability to hold onto money. Just Crazytown overpriced.

 

I offer 75k.

 

IF the offer were accurate I’d have to ask is it for the car or the story (dream).

 

Then they could put the remains in a skip behind the factory and we could start the circle of life again...

 

The big difference here is that they would be the remains of a fake. Oh, but hang on, the remains of the most famous fake car that has ever been, so......

 

So, this latest round of pointless speculations regarding ‘0846’ made me wonder that if, contrary to J.G.s statement of not having any desire to sell it, our resident wannabe used car salesman known for flip flopping was offered an opportunity(?) to broker its sale, how quickly would his tune on the subject change?

 

We are not starting this again. 90 day thread ban for trolling.

 

OK Vincent , you are going BaT, I will up you to 85K. How many days left, and is it 'reserve'?

 

So many cars are bought simply because of the story behind it. This car is legendary in the Ferrari community because of its controversy.
It's has value. And I think that value will only grow into the future. It's perhaps one of the most talked about cars within the Ferrari circle. It would be a real treat for the owner to point to it and say "this is that car". With all 1100 pages of this thread printed in a thick binder.

 

Value from what hypothetical number to what hypothetical number?

 

Ultimately it wouldn't. Everything that happens on Ferrarichat is just an appetiser or even worse a Hors d'oeuvre to the entree/ main course. Nobody is buying $20+ million dollar cars without a broker/ agent/ expert/ dealer. So even if buyer X knows little about cars, real estate or art, they will hire expert Y to do their buying. Les Wexner hired Steve Copley, anyone can get a Marcel Massini report, various high end Europeans hire Kidston to do their bidding and so on and so forth. IF this were a pure P3/4 its value COULD be $40-60 million. As it sits it arguably crosses the line between fake and pure original, fake being merely the cost of building a new car from accepted bits, so lets say $1.5-2 million AT THE VERY MOST. Perhaps even with claims to some original parts you wouldn't want to pay more than $10 million EVER, perhaps more likely $5mm. UNLESS Ferrari or some other authority comes along and explains anything any differently to what we currently know.

As it is I recently looked at a 8C2300 with some original chassis parts, some original engine parts and a entire load of non matching original Alfa Romeo 6C and 8C parts AND Zagato Corto Spider coachwork, perhaps the ultimate road going 8C tipo. Now a Pur Sang 8C2300 is $600k and a great replica while a better, more accurate replica with original bits is around $1mm USA. An original Zagato 8C2300 Corto Spider would be around $8-10 million. Hyman priced their car with all its issues at $1.7mm. Effectively bridging the two. I have for a long time believed that all automobiles can be calculated based on their constituent parts and the values of more prosaic things like originality and competition history, #0846 is no different.

 

the beauty of this auction is that we don’t know the answer to any of those questions.

 

You can't put a price on that. It's only worth whatever somebody is will to pay on that day in that hour at that minute.

 

Meh..those are all nice, but no story. 250GTO's are valuable because of the connection to racing and the drivers who drove them,that is a story. Lemans GT40's, because of the story, there are so many valuable cars out there because of their history/story.
Sure, Jim's car may not be an original but remember, Ferrari was commissioned to cast certain parts of the car by Jim. So Ferrari was involved in some aspects of the build until they weren't. It has a Ferrari drivetrain that is period correct, etc.
The car is a legend. It will never be worth what an original is, but that's not the point. It doesn't need to be crushed either.