Inevitable comparison of SF90 to new Corvette ZR1

Performance in practice is not really the crux. The crux is that GM decided to go all in on a mega ICE engine while the other manufactures are dinking around with complex and heavy electrified PU’s that don’t even come close to the same raw power, and fall even shorter when indexed to full power plant weight (ie LT7 with all the ridiculous array radiators versus the F154 engine with all the assorted electic motors/batteries).

To be clear, the SF90 by any measure will likely perform better than the ZR1. At 2-3X the cost, it certainly should. But…and this point is crucial…what might the SF90 have been with a mega ICE setup up producing 1200ish HP with much lighter weight? What would that car be like? I have no idea, but sign me up to find out.

 

Serious question.

Would it have been possible to make an ICE version of the SF90 that is lighter than the current (claimed) weight of 3454 lbs?

 

Not sure, but let’s compare the Pista at a claimed 3,053lbs. The question becomes could replacing 300ish lbs of motors and batteries be then repurposed into pure mega ICE and radiators? The answer is…I don’t know for sure, but it seems plausible. I would imagine that among the FChat brain trust, someone probably does know.

Worth noting too, pure ICE at 1,000hp versus Hybrid at 1,000hp probably entails a material price difference, and could some (all?) of that cost savings be repurposed towards weight savings? For $650,000, could Ferrari have thrown more displacement and boost at a mega ICE setup and had it come in sub-3,400lbs. Probably?

 

1000hp+ with a bolt on - turbo's or superchargers aren't a big deal. Ford GT did it with ease 2005 and it's cheap hp / torque. Not sure where twitchy comes in.
930 Porsche F40 - try punching the throttle as those way back when defined twitchy - imo
AWD saves lives - without it they all are going to act similar - McLaren is the only factory that can build insanely fast 2wd - probably the best engineering of any car for the price.

The guys at GM don't have the R&D Ferrari has nor the customers to spend 500k - 1M.
Ford lost massively building what they thought was inexpensive battery cars, they were not inexpensive -
Chevrolet would be no different - even worse add the battery would cost a large percentage of the car upon replacement. Customers can't afford hybrid nor the maintenance long term.

Ferrari 918 P1 owners have zero issue spending 100 - 200k on a battery ... they may not like it but when you look at AMG1 to SF90 you are in a hyper car world.
Sadly that while people love to talk about depreciation - the running costs are massively different.

An SF90 can pull up to any hyper car - 1- 4m and feel right at home - because the tech is insanely well done as a package.
The new premise around here is "what's an SF90 worth today". It's a bs statement because you are maintaining a car that cost 500k to 1m with hyper car performance and engineering - expensive engineering.

Corvette loves you all dearly for making a comparison - sadly you all are comparing chopped beef to Wagyu or Harley to Ducatti massive difference on every level.
Corvette is simply doing what they do best - build an American sports car for the masses.

 

Can you spare me your stupid memes - save them for someone who's 12
The auto industry is simple - when factories start building cars they think people want they go broke.
When factories build cars their customer wants - they thrive.
Ford GM Chrysler etc all made fun of Honda Toyota etc until they all went bankrupt.
I know you love the new Vette - I have loved the Vette since age 12 visiting the factory but the days of being special are long gone and re - using a name doesn't bring it back. I ordered the new Vette for one reason - to drive on track. Watch them make a Camaro same engine - it's what they do.

 

Sadly…I don’t love the ZR1 because Chevy didn’t make it large enough for me to fit comfortably (I’m 6’6” 250lbs). I had a C8 Z06 for a year, and wasn’t able to talk myself into making it work. I do think the engines on both the Z06 and ZR1 are glorious and groundbreaking. Oh…and I’ll be careful to avoid memes/gifs with you. Duly noted.

 

I would love a Camaro ZL1-1LE with this motor! Even de-tuned a little to keep the vette guys happy.

 

@Thecadster - Much respect. You handled that juvenile quip extremely well. Always the consummate gentleman.

 

Appreciated. I'm not s small frame and was told the new cabin will be larger. We can go back to many Ford GM Dodge matching or exceeding Ferrari's max hp.
I was at the Ford factory when Ford was disassembling a brand new 360 for their Ford GT project engineers. Ford was interested in beating Enzo - the best days of Ford - so good it was made into a movie. That's when the best of the best were at Ford and Ferrari. GM is impressive but they are limited to their market audience vs Ferrari customers will pay 2-3m with a line around the corner.

 

It will also have a lot more lag. I've had many ICE cars making over 1,000 HP with turbos, and they all produced a lot of lag. The SF90 and 296 using electric motors for torque fill is brilliant. It gives the cars more power everywhere, not just peak power like a V-8 with turbos does.

 

Does the Pista have turbo lag that detracts from its driving experience? I suppose it has turbo lag to the extent that it doesn’t benefit from the electric motor torque fill. I watched this video and it seems like GM has worked hard to limit turbo lag. In fairness, I am not an engineer, I just like cool cars.



Disclosure, in the event that anyone thinks me to be a GM apologist, I am not. I owned a C8 Z06 for 12 months and never managed to fit comfortably in the cabin. I have owned a Pista for over 4 years, and a 812 GTS for 6 months (and a 812 SF for 4.5 years before the GTS). I’m really a “Ferrari Guy” first and foremost, although I like all brands and have owned all brands.

 

I guess you disregard world-wide legislation. Perhaps not a problem in the US, but certainly a consideration in most markets.

Ferrari offered a driveable 1000 HP, 2WD, hypercar 11 years ago. It still offers a more powerful RWD car (296) than McLaren does.

 

People can say all that they want about the ZR1, the declass-ness of Chevy, etc., but the fact that the response to even comparing the ZR1 to a Ferrari (a Ferrari!) is so visceral -- to say nothing of what is actually said about such comparisons -- says quite a bit just how much the ZR1 has shaken up the Tifosi, so say nothing of the entire automotive world.

Carry on. Or not, since folks seems to think the ZR1 is not even worth to be in the same message board as an SF90.

 

Clearly good cars, but 700hp, 800hp or 1000hp and what torque? Who feels the difference on a public (US of A) street?
This is top end bench racing...

 

The Pista is running much smaller turbos than the ZR1, since it only makes a bit over 700hp. The bigger the turbos (like what’s required to make 1,064 hp), the more lag you have to deal with, and the more you would benefit from incorporating electric motors for torque fill (at the expense of weight).

 

All that having been said, I think it’ll be faster than any production Ferrari and/or McLaren from a roll. Might even beat the Plaid as well.

 

2wd 296 is 654hp vs 765LT Senna Elva exceed Ferrari. all above 800hp in real life.
1000hp La Ferrari - you mean 950hp
P1 weight 3075 pounds vs LaFerrari 3495 - won't even mention the Senna at 2650
Let me know what I missed - have no idea where you are coming from.
Ferrari at the end of the day hasn't gone to the track for a long time until the SF90 - there's a reason.
When they announce SF90XX at the ring - you will see why.

 

Torque of SF90 is very close - SF90 will make it far more efficiently and no wing. SF90 is a full second faster 0 - 60 and weighs less that ZR1
SF90XX vs ZR1 on track - won't be close, at 1/4 the price it shouldn't have to.
296XX vs Vette makes more sense - maybe.
La Ferrari spins it's wheels in 4th gear - so that's one it could beat

 

The 296 makes 830 HP. I guess you forgot the electric component. I am always referring to metric horsepower.

Ferrari always quote lap times at their own track. There won't be an official Ring time.

Even 5th if one drives trats the throttle pedal as an on/off switch, but that's why the electronics exist. Plus the advent of new tyre technology.

 

My point was - engine to engine. The hybrid / transmission weight of the SF90 vs 765LT / Senna offsets and Mac using 2wd are close in 1/4 mile.
Ferrari at Fiarano - yes, Ferrari taking a car outside Maranello and breaking track records - besides SF90 - when?
There will be an official SF90XX track time - it's already been shown on video in part and if SIM is an indication - expect 6:29.

 

LaF downforce 794
SF90 XX awd downforce 1168
New Zr1 downforce 1200
Senna downforce 1764
On / off switch coming in / out of a corner - some you can and some you can't, regardless of tire.
Question is how much R&D they spend and apply - these factories know how to build a fast car.

 

wow, that would be quite something and very very impressive!

 

Pro-meme here (and not 12 yo). Carry on.

 

LFG!

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That doesn't make any sense. Power is power, no matter the source.

So is the RWD 296. The SF90 is not that close to the other two though.

So far Ferrari hasn't attempted a lap record with the SF90 outside Fiorano. Independent testers have achieve some lap records.

A very powerful RWD car will spin its tyres (up to a certain speed) if you treat the throttle as a switch, unless the electronics are engaged.