812 Replacement Rumors

Yep.

Looks like the 812 replacement will be NA V12 but with electrical assistance. IMO that's preferable than the alternative, TT V12. Lets not forget that turbocharging is also quite a heavy job and will easily add 100kg as well...and mounted higher up. Whilst the batteries and battery motor won't be lightweight by any means, it can all be mounted much lower and therefore the impact of the weight will be much reduced. And still keep that glorious noise...

 

I agree with this. With all the new EU regs regarding noise, pollution etc a Hybrid V12 is the only logical solution. It'll still be a great car as Ferrari don't know how to go backwards. I just picked up my new 812SF yesterday and can't imagine its replacement retaining its charisma, noise and character despite being objectively a better car. Based on my 18hrs of 812 ownership i've already concluded that its Ferrari's finest creation.
However the new one will need to adapt to meet regs which will be a real ball ache for Ferrari's undoubted gifted engineers.

 

Congrats on the new 812! Yes I struggle to believe how ferrari can improve on the 812...they rarely fail but imo ferrari hasn't topped the speciale since moving to turbo. The 812 is so fast I struggle to comprehend how the replacement will be better with more weight (sure, more power too....)

 

Thanks Bas.
I also just can't see how they'll top the 812 as whatever means of propulsion its replacement will have, weight will only go one way unfortunately. I've been looking for my ideal 812 for over 6 months and wanted one with the lightest wheels and seats and all the weight saving options with none of the weight adding ones added. It feels sublime to drive and can't see the appeal for one with an extra 100+Kg added.
The 812's replacement is guaranteed to be more powerful, faster and heavier but as you say the 812 is already plenty fast enough and any faster is pure overkill.

 

If it's a V12, you give me $ 1000, and if not, I'll give it to you, do you agree?

 

IMO past is not always prologue.

Sure, for decades each new Ferrari was in some measure “objectively” better: faster, better handling, better brakes, more reliable.
But from a rational standpoint that can’t always remain true, the curve is not linear, it hits an asymptote. Clearly, anyone who gives it a moment of thought will agree.
Just carry out an “Einsteinian” thought experiment:
Arguably 800 hp gives more thrills than 400 hp, but does 1500 hp yield the same benefit over 800 hp?
If you said “yes,” then I’ll just more the goal posts—does 10,000 hp yield a better driving experience? 25,000 hp?
0-62 mph at 2.5-3 sec is fun, is 0-62 in 0.5 sec fun?
On a very deserted back road 165 mph can get your heart racing, and yield a dopamine rush, but will you “enjoy” 400 mph on the same road, or anywhere for that matter?

Again, IMO, we have reached the top of a broad summit (on that plateau there will be relatively small rises and valleys). For pure driving pleasure Ferrari has not created a production car “better” than the Speciale, nor will they create anything better than the 812SF/GTS (I’m excluding rare collectible hypercars like F40, etc.). Nothing beats the scream of a NA Ferrari V12, and we know that over the coming years that sound will decrease...that is an almost guaranteed fact. Will weight go up? You bet. Will hp go up? Of course, but see above.

Anyone with a maturity level greater than 18 years old knows that on public roads there is no performance improvement over these cars. If you think you can push faster than a Speciale or an 812 on public roads shared by families, farm equipment, and occasional deer you are either insane, or just plain ignorant.

Get ‘me while you can boys!

 

FUV will have the V12, but it will also become available in a cheaper version with a lousy V8.
Prices will be on the RR Cullinan level.

Marcel Massini

 

it will have 4 doors like Urus?

 

Five.

Marcel Massini

 

Italiafan said, "Anyone with a maturity level greater than 18 years old knows that on public roads there is no performance improvement over these cars. If you think you can push faster than a Speciale or an 812 on public roads shared by families, farm equipment, and occasional deer you are either insane, or just plain ignorant."

It's always interesting when folks presume to speak in absolute terms. There are a variety of 'public' roads/places (areas) in California where one can readily enjoy 9/10ths of cars such as a Chiron, 812, Pista, Aventador, Porsche GT2 RS, etc. Indeed, there's a very special area in central California which has hundreds, if not thousands, of miles of glorious back roads with tight twisties, sweepers, and long, long straightaways - roads that leave your face aching from smiling so much. Here, you do can run the tighest twisties at 3 times the posed speed limit, and do V-max runs. You can drive for hours without encountering a since cop, pedestrian, bicyclist, motorcycle, tractor, or other motorist. Then, there are the dozens of other well known roads/areas in California which are commonly used by auto reviewers - roads where one can run at 7 - 8/10ths of their supercars's capacity without endangering anyone.

Suggestion: before making broad proclamations, contemplate the possibility that your driving options may be significantly different from those enjoyed by others.

 

Great post which sums all things Ferrari perfectly.

 

I have a GTS inbound please tell me I can switch off the stop start still. I deleted all radar and driver aids.

 

I'm in the UK and can switch the Start/Stop off on my pre GPF 812SF. I assume its the same for the GTS and the 812 GPF.?

 

You are so lucky, about 5pc of the UK is enjoyable now. Cameras everywhere.

 

I drove down to Swindon yesterday to pick up my 812 and between the accidents, traffic congestion and road works at one point i didn't think i'd ever get there.

 

Suggestion: before making statements that you feel contradict my point actually take a moment to realize that you are supporting my point.
9/10s you say? Okay for the Speciale and 812 that equates to driving at about 185-190 mph. My point is that we are approaching the asymptote of supercar performance. So, as I stated in my post, if you think you can routinely push beyond 190 mph for many miles and “hours” of driving then I think that is insane, or at the very least a case of internet hyperbole. By the way, I never said anything about exceeding posted speed limits.

Stick a competent supercar enthusiast behind the wheel of either a Speciale or an 812 on those roads you speak of and I am quite sure for those thousands of miles no car in the future will appreciably make those cars feel slow or obsolete. That was my point.

Ergo, I think my point stands.

 

And will depreciate just as quick - will be a great 2nd hand acquisition like the V12 Lusso

 

Depends what one defines as performance. To me performance encompasses many factors - outright speed being just one of them. As an "ex engineer" I appreciate all aspects of what Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini and Porsche engineer into their cars. This is what keeps the interest going IMO

 

If one cannot afford depreciation just don't buy a car (any car). When will people finally stop thinking that they can drive for free or even make money with any vehicle?

Marcel Massini

 

No actually, it doesn’t depend on how you define performance.
Refer to my post above where I mention an “Einsteinian” thought experiment.
Pick whatever parameter you like...and there will be an asymptote.
Top speed...300mph, or how about breaking the sound barrier?
Braking...100-0mph in 50ft?
Acceleration...0-60 in 0.5sec?
Laterals G forces...7?
Make machines of such extraordinary capability they flaunt the laws of physics? Great, your body will cave in from G forces.
You see? It doesn’t matter, we are approaching a point with today’s supercars that trying to gain more “performance” will not only be silly but may very well decrease the pleasure of driving. If cars become “on/off” switches there is nothing left for the brain to process and enjoy.

 

If car forums had existed in the 1950s, I bet you would have found someone posting the same thought.

 

I love the internet.
My original post started off with, “IMO past is not always prologue.” “Sure for decades.......”

Let me translate: the past is over, cars have improved dramatically along all lines of performance for decades, but that is not going to continue into the future forever. We will approach the limits of what is reasonable, technologically feasible, and just plain simply what the body can endure.

I have an 812...I have pushed it hard on a number of occasions...on deserted back ranch land roads...I defy any sane person to try and prove to me that with any car ever built in the future they will be consistently driving faster, enjoying themselves, and doing it any semblance of safety. Period.

 

I think I was the first and perhaps only new owner of an F12 to post it needed MORE power! Did it really - heck no. And I will not use much of its capability on the street nor do I want to. That doesn't stop me from wanting it to have more power. We want the production cars to advance to the power of the hypercar. Since the hypercar will increase then there is always room for the production car to advance. As long as it stays NA then I'm still interested. Rumors here say it will so we'll see. Ferrari always has something better in the lab.

 

I agree that as long as it is NA I too will remain interested.
But they won’t, or can’t, in the “arms race” of more power and performance there is only so far to go...that is my point.
They can build a 10,000 hp electric 4-turbo hybrid, hydrogen bomb, supercharged 4L V12 AWD with special tires designed with superglue nubbins that does 0-60 in .00000001 sec and (apart from the interesting technological virtuosity of it) I wouldn’t care one bit, no interest in driving such a contraption.

 

I think they should add liquid fuel rocket engines for the straights. Light them up after apex. Maybe extend some retractable wings outside the body. Retro rockets to add to braking. Drivers wear compression suits for G-forces. Add GPF for Euro compliance...