430 - Any red flags here? Considering this F430. | FerrariChat

430 Any red flags here? Considering this F430.

Discussion in '360/430' started by greggma, Jul 19, 2021.

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  1. greggma

    greggma Rookie

    Dec 22, 2020
    15
    Boston area
    I've been giving some thought to bidding on this auction. The condition of things is a little bit unconventional, though, so I'm curious to get opinions.

    https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rMzBvLOa/2005-ferrari-f430-berlinetta?c=all

    -The car has been lowered (Swift thrust sheets installed... not famiilar with these). Plus? Or minus?

    -The original carbon ceramics are off, replaced by steel brakes (although the carbon ceramics are included with the sale).

    -70% Front windshield tint definitely won't fly in MA (though that's an easy fix)

    -AP headers/titanium exhaust are appealing (downside: OEM exhaust/headers not included). I guess my only concern here would be passing inspection. I like the idea of a non-OEM exhaust.

    -Clutch life at 50%

    What do you (likely more experienced) folks think of this? Good bet? Or too many red flags? What questions should I be asking? Unfortunately, the car is in southern California, so seeing it in person is out of the question.
    Thanks,
    Gregg
     
  2. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,772
    ive been around a while and i have never heard of swift thrust sheets (doesnt mean they suck).
    i wld raise the car back to normal height if you live in metro area of mass.
    ive heard of people going to steel brakes for the track, otherwise no real reason to take the ceramics off.
    windshield tint has to go like you said.
    those seats look cool but cld get annoying.
    ap headers and exhaust are plusses -if its valveless it cld be too loud most of the time.
    clutch at 50% isnt a great number.
    i love argento.
    has the f1 actuator been done?
     
  3. greggma

    greggma Rookie

    Dec 22, 2020
    15
    Boston area
    Thanks for the quick reply! Appreciate the input.
    He did mention the most recent service including:
    "Replacement of the accumulator, E-diff valve, spark plugs, engine mounts, and titanium reinforcement tags for exhaust"
    I wonder if he meant actuator instead of accumulator (maybe not, some googling shows that this is something different)?

    Yeah, 50% clutch does have me a bit concerned.

    I guess it comes down to how much this goes for. On one hand, it has some appealing mods (exhaust and headers), but it also lacks the OEM parts and does have a clutch due somewhere on the horizon (though I've never driven an F430, so I don't know how quickly to expect that 50% to go).
     
  4. S F

    S F Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2016
    164
    Texas
    Swift made the springs in my M3 and they are known to be a quality manufacturer of suspension parts.

    https://www.swiftsprings.com/products/misc/

    In this case, looks like it's just something to eliminate noise. I wonder if they lowered the car via springs or just turned the factory coilovers down a bit?

    The car itself looks very nice from the photos, if that is worth anything.
     
  5. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    If you can’t see it or get a PPI, I would recommend not buying it or placing a bid low enough to cover yourself in case it needs 5 figures of work. Some you tuber bought a car recently that needs $30k of work, he was ignorant of all the things smart buyers should do.

    The problem with covering yourself by bidding lower, is there is so many stupid bidders (plus shills) driving the price up.
     
    one4torque likes this.
  6. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 17, 2006
    2,004
    New Jersey Shore
    in addition to what ttforcefed said, there are a few things visually don't seem right with the car, but there could be explanations.

    First, the brakes have been repainted. The F430 even with carbon ceramic brakes never had a logo that said carbon ceramic on the caliper. That was the 458.
    The PPF looks like it was done by a kindergartner. If you zoom into the pic of the lower side intake you'll see what I mean.
    The rear bumper area by the license plate has been either painted or wrapped in black to look more like a scud. I'd wonder if it's paint was the whole rear bumper repainted. Front bumpers are common on Ferrari's because of the soft paint, rear not so much.

    Why were the Ceramic rotors removed? Assume they are bad if they aren't on the car. The computer keeps track of heat cycles not thickness so they could appear good by may be worn out.
     
  7. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2020
    1,905
    Franklin Park, New Jersey
    Full Name:
    John Napoli
    I'm pretty new to the F430 game.

    I would say if you like that build just the way it is (lowered, loud) and would be ok driving and owning it the way it is, it's a good buy for $85k-$95k based on what they're going for these days

    If you think you're going to want a valved exhaust (I just put on a Kline, REALLY NICE being able to dial the sound up and down at will), and it's too low for you (looks maybe too low to me), and with that clutch wear, plan on pretty significant investment beyond whatever the price bid runs up to

    One wonders with that height and clutch wear how hard the cars been driven, ie how was the maintenance

    I would say you're better off waiting to find one closer to stock and taking it in the direction you want, though you may have to pay more for a nice one

    It's certainly a beautiful F430
     
    JSP likes this.
  8. Snapshift

    Snapshift Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2020
    715
    Centralia IL
    Full Name:
    Lyle D. Pahnke
    My guess is that it has been tracked. Some replace CCM brakes for Metallics for track use. The ones on it are good IMHO. See if you can get a PPI with code readouts. That might give you some idea of useage and conditions. 50 % on Clutch is drivable and with reasonable care should last 2-3 years. The only maintenence I can see is a Wheel alignment. Perhaps you could call Ferrari of SD and ask about the cars condition etc . GLWP
     
    Shark01 likes this.
  9. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    Good catch....another common switcher of brake rotors? Rental companies.
     
  10. greggma

    greggma Rookie

    Dec 22, 2020
    15
    Boston area
    Thanks all... I appreciate the feedback (overwhelming really, I expected one or two replies maybe). The consensus seems to be to proceed with caution, if at all. I will do so.
    Being able to get a PPI would certainly make me feel better. Maybe it's best for me to stay away from the auction sites.
    I think the pictures really drew me in on this one. Argento Nurburgring is an amazing paint color, and the photography is very well done.
     
  11. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,212
    Santa Clarita, CA
    Look on You Tube for the guy that bought a 360 without a PPI. He’s the guy that the earlier poster was talking about. His car needs $30,000 spent on it.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  12. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 17, 2006
    2,004
    New Jersey Shore
    Are you talking about the one bought from CNC motors?
     
  13. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    Yes, but we read similar stories here, the difference being all the needed repairs are documented on video.

    But yes, since it was a consignment to CNC, he never received a title (at the time the video was made) so he doesn’t actually own the car, just providing free storage.

    If he had bothered to get a PPI, the car would have failed (his first major issue started just after leaving the CNC lot to drive home, plus a lot of issues were easy to see in the video) and he would have been free from the mess.
     
  14. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,212
    Santa Clarita, CA
    Yes that’s the one I’m referring to. I feel really bad for the guy.
    I also bought my car from CNC, but got lucky. I haven’t had any problems in over a year.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  15. Dean Palmer

    Dean Palmer Formula Junior

    May 21, 2010
    406
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Dean Palmer
    Ensure that the brake system has all the components of the carbon ceramic system, not just the calipers swapped out. All components right back to the brake master cylinder are different, not just the rotors or the calipers. It's a 2005, so the CCB system was not standard. If they swapped in the larger front calipers and nothing else, could be issues if you ever wanted to use the CCB rotors.
     
  16. F131 one of one

    F131 one of one Karting

    Oct 12, 2019
    113
    Netherlands, Europe
    Full Name:
    Taco Vonk
    The auction text says the car comes with an un-installed CCB system. It was probably never on the car as it had steel brakes since 2005. Dean Palmer is right about the different components and more important the 2005 and 2006 models do not have the software that "read the wear" of the rotors.

    50% on clutch is no big deal. For example: I bought my 430 spider 3 years and 6000 km/ 3750 mls ago with 34% clutch left. Today it still has 28%
     
    Danedingerson likes this.
  17. Danedingerson

    Danedingerson Karting
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    Dec 26, 2011
    218
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Dane
    Factory headers included in sale
     
  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
    18,772
    Theyre not worth anything other than Making a coffee table out of them
     
    Ray Smith and Texas Forever like this.
  19. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2020
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    Franklin Park, New Jersey
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    John Napoli
    I wouldn't say avoid auction sites. I watch Bring A Trailer (BAT) daily and it appears many high quality F430's flow through there for example. It's just good to know what to look for, get it inspected and, for me personally, I'd make the trip to check it out so there are no surprises. If you're seriously gonna buy, you can get just about anywhere in the US for not that much money these days, compared to the expense of getting a car with issues.
     
  20. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    While normally, most of this is good advice.....applying it to a car on auction is impractical. Say you can get it inspected, although a lot of sellers will try to discourage that. If the car fails, easy enough you don’t place a bid and move on.

    Say it passes.....that is where the sticky wicket starts. It’s not like a normal transaction where I have negotiated a price and buy it on the spot. You have no idea what the final price will be, you still have to hope you win, beating out all the stupid and shill bidders. So odds are you are going to be $1,000 into a car you don’t win.
     
    colorfull likes this.
  21. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2020
    1,905
    Franklin Park, New Jersey
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    John Napoli
    Good point, clearly spoken from experience.

    I was thinking at that point you'd be in until the final bid, but you're right of course, sometimes bidding gets out of control.

    I defer to those who know better on this one!
     
    Shark01 likes this.
  22. Dean Palmer

    Dean Palmer Formula Junior

    May 21, 2010
    406
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Dean Palmer
    Auctions are tough to call, and you need to either go see the car or trust the info presented. I watch Bring-A-Trailer daily and get alerts as well, and the info presented and the honesty is probably the best you'll find as viewers can post in the listing. You have a huge community of watchers, some who are experts in the specific brand/model and pose very good observations. In an auction you are bidding with the idea of what it would cost if there were issues, not as someone who can spend weeks contemplating a purchase and having a thorough PPI. I have more fear of cars from dealerships and the major auctions than I do from Bring a Trailer.
     
  23. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    I don’t trust any seller, I just take information at face value. And these “experts” on BAT? Who are they? What are their qualifications? What is their motivation?

    I have followed a number of Ford GT auctions just for fun, and I am able to identify some fellow Ford GT owners by their screen names....and trust me, most are NOT experts. Real experts don’t give away knowledge for free, expecting nothing in return.
     
  24. Dean Palmer

    Dean Palmer Formula Junior

    May 21, 2010
    406
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Dean Palmer
    Expert = anyone who has actual valid info and experience from ownership, being a mechanic, being an experienced collector, etc. Let's not try and rip apart my opinion or use of a word when what I state is true.

    Of course just because you can identify people that are fellow owners does not take away the fact that they may actually be experts on a certain subject... or they may be crackpots. Nobody is saying that everyone posting there is an expert. You'd be pretty insulted if someone questioned your expertise on a subject and you were clearly very knowledgeable and trying to help others with the info.

    It's pretty simple to go and look and see that there are a lot of very experienced people as well as some industry-known experts at times. Of course there are people who post simply to be a troll and cause problems, or just have no clue, but most are easy to see.

    Just like here on F-Chat, we have a lot of people with a pretty wide wealth of experience that are considered experts.

    "Experts" do not need letters after their name or post their qualifications as it's usually clear when someone has that level of experience or "expertise" and I'm pretty sure that lots of them are also here on F-Chat that would support this premise.
     
    JSP likes this.
  25. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    Not my intention to invalidate your opinion, because all are welcome.

    I just don’t put faith in unknown keyboard warriors or sellers.

    There are nice people here that do try to help others.....the difference being you can research their posting and ownership history and make a judgement on whether their advice has value. Open online car auctions are like the old west, few rules and you seldom really know anything about the guy standing across from you.

    I claim no expertise on any subject, so no I don’t get offended by others questioning my opinions.

    You stated you trust online auctions more than a dealer......you do know BAT is overrun by dealers (sometimes posing as individuals) these days right?
     

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