Hi all, After reading about all that exists on the internet about the 612, I would like to say that I am the proud owner of a 2009 OTO since a few months, but I must say I am not. I really need some help to figure out if the problem is me or my car. About the car : 2009 OTO in Pozzi blue, with what I would call chocolate interior, with HGTC package, challenge polished rims quite well optioned options (leather sills, leather boot lining for the not so common ones). It had a tad over 55 000 km when I got it. I bought it to a "professionnal" (not an official dealer). It has full Ferrari invoice history (even the wipers and tyres were changed at the dealer !), and, having had a talk with them, they say that I bought a really good car. What seemed to be its only default (beside the usual stone chipping) was a poor front left mud guard repair (broken and fixed back with some metal plate and screws. ...and the story begins... The day I got the car, we went for a little week-end, a 60 km trip on little roads. I was not very relaxed as I found the handling to be quite hazardous, but put it on the poor roads, big car, and new car for me. Nevertheless (thinking again about it), I have taken a twisty road I already drove in my Range Rover (not a sport...) a few years ago and realized that I was taking the two esses at nearly 60% of the speed I could take them with the truck, and not being confident at all. Soon after delivery, taking it for its first journey, I had the front left tyre blow on the highway. Fortunately enough, no damage other than the tyre. I had the car towed, and, after removing the front left wheel, we may see that it had already been (cheaply) repaired, and painted to mask the reparation... I had the rim quickly repaired (back order at Ferrari...) and 4 new Michelin PS4S to K specs put on the car. The handling was a bit better, but not what I expected for a 320 km/h capable car. I brought the car to the local Ferrari dealer and told them to have a full full full checkup of the car, to get it in perfect handling shape. They found that the front steering rod had excessive play and nothing else. Hurray ! That has to be the culprit ! Replacement of both, alignement, check of the LSD, change of the poorly repaired wheel liner, repair of the not working TPMS (that would have allowed to stop before seing the smoke out of the front left...)... 10 grand later (and a few month after getting the car...), I am back on the road. At this stage, I begin to think that the reseller I bought it from should have had some trip with the car, took a big pothole, that bent the front left rim, damage the wheel liner and cause play in the sterring rod. (Some love letters are being exchanged...) Getting back home, the weather is poor and very cold, I drive very cautiously and am not really able to say anything about the handling but do not feel it very well. Next journey planed, a 4 day / 1000 km one, after 60 km of highway, I decide to go back home and take another car, being stressed about the poor handling. Last week-end, I have a good friend of mine, who teached me everything I know about track driving test drive the car with me, just to be sure that it was not in my mind. Conclusion : The handling is indeed hazardous. Appointment at the Ferrari dealer last monday, to have a test drive with him, and make him feel what I am talking about. His conclusion : "I think that you may have too high expectations for the handling of this car, even if there is a little something that's curious". For him, it is an "old" (!) car, with a handling not up to nowadays standards. It was really not arrogant and was very annoyed for me. The car is still in their hands, and they will check it all over again (especially the sterring rack that I fear may have been damaged by the incident which bent the rim) ...end of story, for the moment being... The phenomenom : I live in a place with twisty highways. Long perfect highway curves. Please understand, that I am not talking about using the car "sportly". I bought it to be a 160 kph (where it is legal, of course !) cruise control GT, and what I am talking about is just having the car driven like this in a highway curve and having to take the cruise control of, lift the throttle (someone changing lane upfront, changing gear, but nothing to do with an emergency move or the car being set near its maximum lateral press hold). In these cases, but even changing lane in straight line at speed, I fell like the car is floating at the front, and I have to correct the steering 3, 4, 5 times to keep it on its line. It seems to need all the available space to overpass a truck in a curve due to the air call. A bit about my car/driving background : I am a Porsche guy for around 15 years now, having had 996 & 997 Carrera, gt3 (very old car I guess ! ;-), but with faultless handling !), racing Porsche cups since 2010, and had a bunch of other makes too, which, listening to the Ferrari expert should be antiques ! (E46 M3, S1 Exige, C6 Corvette, and so on). I also own a S1 Elise (with MMC ! ;-)), a 99 open top Jaguar XKR which, to say the least, is not a sword when it comes to handling, but I feel more confident in it than in the 612. I also had a 360 some years ago, and I never felt its handling was "dated" or worrying at all, by the time. I got the Scag for the occasionnal weekend trip with my better half, when you have to drive 1000 km and not be exhausted arriving at the destination, and have a more modern car than the XKR (that I love, but it is another story), to driving with one hand on the highway, while being able to have a little bit of fun in the twisties if some are encountered... There are highway curves that I could take at more than 180 kph in my Touareg or Cayenne that I am not confident, nearly scared to take with my Scag... I expected this car to be the "Hey, what would you think to have dinner at the 500 km from here beach tonight ?" GT, and after researching and reading all I can find on the internet, absolutely no one is talking about poor handling about this car. So... If you have read up to this point, thank you and congratulations ! I would really like to get some replies about you that own and know the 612 very well. Is it me ? Is it some kind of secret 612 club that you have to sign a NDA to be in (they forgot to make me sign it, for sure !) ? I cannot believe that this 320 kph car being used like I use it may be so disappointing and scaring. Any help or advise is really welcome. Taz, Brogenville, you that seem to know it all about this car, would you have any idea to point me (and the Ferari dealer !) in the right direction ? Some indie, here or abroad to go to be, at last, able to simply use my car ? Sadly, I bought it on a impulse, and have not driven another one to have a comparison and had trust on the professionnal who was selling it... You live, you learn. I hope that this will help someone... Many thanks in advance for any help !
I bought a 2008 interim (non OTO) car with 27k miles on it a year ago and felt a similar strange handling feeling in the twisty mountain roads as well as a rough ride. I have a 2008 599 also and in driving back to back I could easily tell that something was very wrong about the 612. (Disclaimer: I bought sight unseen during COVID and mistakenly thought a Ferrari dealer selling a CPO car meant everything would be OK. Cosmetically it is great). I took it to the local dealer after my first trip and they agreed that it handled dangerously...loose and floaty in the turns but in a way that was very unsettling. They ended up saying the car with play in the worn rear tie rods and then the selling dealer replaced them. I felt like that made the scary handling go away but still had the rough ride and proceeded to replace all of the ball joints. The rough ride persisted and now a few months further on the dealer is now replacing the rear struts and strut mounts. I hope that is the end of it for me and will report back how the car is when I get it back. Anyway I've put about 1500 miles on the car in 10 months and will have spent about $26,000 (plus $10k worth of work the selling dealer supposedly did at their expense) trying to get it "right" like it was supposed to be when I bought it. If so, I will have a great car but I won't know til the work is done. Hopefully your issue is only tie rod ends but if it also has a rough ride then it could be other things...
I don't know what is wrong with your car, other than to say that my 612 OTO is what you were expecting... I just finished a 3000 km trip over the course of a view days, lots of 160-170-180kph cruising (with cruise control on), and no issues, no stress. So there is definitely something wrong with your car.
There should be something wrong with your car. My 2006 612 is sooooo stabile and smooth, it sometimes is a little boring. I can cruise it easily with 180-200km/h Verstuurd vanaf mijn J9210 met Tapatalk
Hi - I had similar issues with my 612 when I bought it earlier this year...handling felt 'vague', a little bit unpredictable and ride quality was harsher than I expected for a grand tourer (not in body roll terms, more just driving on straights). I too have had cars that are designed to be tracked and currently track my 911 GT3 RS regularly, and therefore know what it is like to drive a car that has been setup properly. I got my 612 back from the garage this week after some winter storage - and suspension work - and it feels like a totally different car. The vagueness is gone, the ride quality is actually much more pleasant (softer on the straights). There is clearly still much more body roll than a GT3, but I'm not driving the 612 aggressively and would never track it. In short, it is now the car I expected it to be. Looking at the repair work, here is what was done to the suspension (please note I am not technically minded and therefore can't comment on the specifics): Remove both the front top wishbones, press out and replace the worn ball joints, renew the gaiters, press out and replace seized flamblocs on the front wishbones and refit the wishbones to the car Remove and replace the tie rod ends Geometry check and alignment This has been a massive improvement to my enjoyment of the car, and hope you get a resolution to your issues.
Have you actually had the geometry checked yet? The 612 uses shims to adjust the camber, so its a bit of a faff for a of of places, so I bet that many of them don't actually set it up.
At first, thank you all for your really fast answers and patience to read my story. I am nearly happy to see that it doesnt seem to be in mind ! About the alignment, it has been done by the Ferrari dealer and he showed us (my track mentor, who is also a former racecars chassis tuner) the alignment sheet, with before after values, the latter ones being all within the range. He says he will try to go closer to the limits, to try to get it better, but I do not think that it will be sufficient to do the trick :-/ I do not find the ride rough at all, and the F-tech says that the rods are fine... I hope they will find something by double checking, but as he states that my expectations seem to high for a car « that old », I am quite doubtfull to go anywhere with them... Again, many thanks for your inputs !
I wonder if your problem is in the back. I don't know this car (yet). I had an "M" car where the rear ball joints went out. It felt like the front and rear of the car were not rigidly connected. When driving I too had to "correct" the steering in a straight - not like tramlining which is a real rapid correction but more of a slower, sweeping action. Food for thought...
I have a 2008 HGT2 OTO. It is the best road car I have ever driven. From your report, there is something wrong with your car. Computer issues? Keep looking because you will love it when it’s right.
Sorry to hear about your nightmares, but I can definitely confirm that my 2010 OTO is a joy to drive and the handling actually surpassed my expectations for a a car its size.
@QtrItalian I would also agree, check the back. My car would oversteer more turning left then right, turned out to be a rear toe link adjustment. Now with a 4 wheel alignment from a high caliber local race shop it drives great. With your background, you should have a connection to someone who can check and try some basic stuff like ride height and bump settings and toe etc. Hell for ten grand you can rent a track with an ambulance for an entire day. I'm bummed that your having this much trouble. I hope you find what's making you uncomfortable to drive it.
HGTC was not an option on OTOs. HGT2 was. Sounds like she needs a four wheel alignment and likely some suspension joint replacements. Those on the 360/F430/612/599 have short service lives. Use Hill Engineering suspension parts if she needs them. Ferraris are very sensitive to suspension alignment and worn components.
Yes, it is a hgt2, my mistake. I think that I will have another F-dealer and/or indy (anyone to recommend in France ?) to have a fresh eye looking into it... I indeed know some race shops to have an alignement done, but they are Porsche focused and do not know the F cars at all...
I don't normally chime in on the 599/612 boards, but here's my view. Knowing what you now know about the car, I would suggest "rebuilding" the suspension. New rubber bushes in all suspension arms. New ball joint front and rear, upper and lower. There's a lot of rubber in these parts, and that rubber is not only worn from mileage. These cars run hot brakes which affect the material. On top of that, age matters too in this regard. While you are at it, do the struts too. From what I recall they are not that badly priced at Eurospares or Ricambi. Most of these parts aren't that bad, what will be the cost is the work. But you will get a car that has a chassis in proper shape. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
An alignment is not something you need a race shop for. A proper reputable alignment shop with an up-to-date four wheel rack should have the car in the database. Just as an example, the place I use has the numbers for anything from my Pista to the Lusso etc. I would be surprised if they don't have the factory settings. And if not, I'm sure some of your fellow 612 owners have a workshop manual with them. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Indeed, and the tracking is trivial to adjust. Altering the camber requires changing the shims behind the famblocks though- not difficult by any means, but not something your average garage will have on the shelf.. In fairness its not something that should change once set, but in your case I don't think you can take anything for granted.
For sure, I cannot take anything for granted in y case ;-). I would say that the suspension overhaul will be the next step after the last F-dealer try that is being done. My concern will then be (as I am not confident that everything will be addressed next time I try the car) : Where to have this work done. Beside the F-dealer, who tells me that everything is fine, I do not know of a reputable indy around there. I do not have the tools/skills/time to try to do the work myself. If. Anyone know of a reputable shop around Lyon (even quite far) ?
Just casting my vote here that I haven't had any handling issues in 4 yrs - it's just perfect and nearly as predictable as my GT3 RS on spirited drives. Definitely something specific to your car. Sent from my moto g(8) power using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I would post in the France section. I think you're more likely to find a referral there than here. You might also try looking at the Ferrari dealer list, calling a few, and asking what they think. I would sure agree that the dealer you have been working with is not worth continuing with.
In addition to specific geometry (camber, toe, and castor) for all four wheels, type and condition of parts matter. Flexible bushings change as they age, a static setup may not have intended dynamic response A critical element on steering and handling is the tire and wheel package. Putting aftermarket tires and wheels can alter the factory-intended steering and handling substantially. In my experience, the steering on Ferraris is one of the great joys of the cars provided the factory steering and handling are kept. Having raced cars for nearly a decade in SCCA, dialing handling in where one may prefer takes time and a developed awareness of what the changes induce. And remember the longer wheelbase cars like the 456 and 612 have less nimble turning response compared to a Lotus Elan with short wheelbase and lower mass.
Shout out for Richard at Berlinetta Spares for solid stainless steel ball joints. Excellent service and best prices. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
What a timely thread! I too have just acquired a 612 and the ride is really rough and not at all what I expected. My previous daily driver was a 2014 Maserati QPorte GTS on factory 21" wheels, and it rode like a Rolls Royce compared to what I'm experiencing in the 612 with factory 19" wheels. Just knowing these cars should exceed one's expectations vs. the rough, banging, miserable drive I've got now is reassuring. I just wonder how much it's going to cost to set it right....
A lot of good advices here ! I would really like to thank you all for your feedbacks. I now know that I am not crazy in my expectation to take a highway without any stress at my normal pace... I am waiting for the feedback of the dealer by the end of the week and will let you know... ....before I go to another one, I fear !
One other thing, too, is that the Pirellis fitted to these Ferraris were really terrible tires. A switch to Michelin MPSS or MPS4S usually really helps ride and handling.
