Is Maserati a second-class citizen?

Rob,
Let me suggest some subgroups and hopefully these make sense to other people
1. Race cars
2.Inline 6 - 3500GT through Mistral
3. V8 - QP1 through Kyalami
4. Biturbo era cars
5. Modern Maserati - 3200 though current production

Ivan

 

Actually, I think QP3 ended production after the Kyalami

 

Right, thank you Rob for discussing this with us.

My two cents:

Many Maseratisti resent having to go through a Farrorree site to access this forum; after all Maserati is a much older company. It is literally harmful to the prestige of Maserati to have to go through the Fchat portal...just like people do not like to ride in the back seat of a two door car which means crawling awkwardly into and out of the back.

I cannot over-emphasize this point. There is a negativity against Maserati stemming from the Biturbo years and the nine year USA market absence from 1991 to 2000 along with a lot of stupid negative wrong hearsay about the brand in Fchat and the world at large, about certain models which must be eradicated. Maserati also won the Indy 500 twice which Enzo's entries failed to do repeatedly.

There should have to be a way for people to head directly to Maseratichat AND at the top of the screen for there to be a virtual Ferrarichat button. Like wise with Lambo section and others. It is true that I was briefly a member of the Lambo separate section, due to a matter which I have now settled so I don't go there anymore and you are right that total separation is not the answer.

So what I propose seems the best of both worlds: a fully stand alone www dot Maseratichat dot com section AND redirect buttons at top between Fchat, Maseratichat Lambochat, Yugo chat, Dodge chat whatever etc.

Same login and optional subscription for all sections.

I am convinced that you would get far more sponsors and engagement from the factory, importers and dealers.

As to separate sections and defining eras; I discussed this with Ermanno Cozza the factory's longtime historian who was very helpful for me when I researched and wrote my books: the sections can be defined as Ivan just did or the eras as Cozza suggested can be defined by ownership:

-Maserati brothers era, 1914-1937
-Orsi era 1937-1968
-Citroen era 1968-1975 (the shortest but a revolutionary period for the firm)
-De Tomaso era 1975-1993
-Fiat era 3200GT onwards.

I confirm two good things; detailed searches allow to find most everything, one can search in a specific thread only for example.
Being a subscriber which I have been for a few years now gets rid of unwanted ads.

I also confirm one thing Joe mentioned which is the unwanted screen jump specially on the cell phone which causes one to unwittingly click on the wrong thing such as on "last message" instead of the top thread which some weeks ago being tired caused me to think I was responding to a recent thread when in fact it was old, which prompted some very rude reactions as though I were back in that asylum called P & R...all because of that screen jump which is very annoying.

In conclusion it is not perfect here but much better than facebook (which I was asked to join last year by one of my publishers) and which is full of clueless idiots.

There is a community of owners and very knowledgeable people here that deserve an improved communications tool. I don't have the software knowledge of experts like Alan but if you were to implement what people here suggest it would be a good start.

To finish my expression;-)

Cows and donkeys are born in the suburbs (Sant Agata and Maranello) only Tridents are made in Modena

 

One thing I would suggest is separating the Ferrari era cars from the FCA era cars. While owners of Orsi era cars may not see a difference, there is, it is as much of a difference as between Orsi and Biturbo only the GranTurismo has some overlap,

Unless it’s a Ferrari/Maserati dual the techs at most Maserati (Alfa) dealerships are unable to service the Ferrari era cars, they don’t the training, tools, software programs, parts etc. And you should probably be happy they don’t have it, as many of the Techs were transfers in from other franchises (usually CDJR) in the dealer group.

 

I don't resent having to go to a Ferrari oriented website at all. Get over it. Plenty of people own multiple marques myself included. I rarely go to the split off Lamborghini website now.
You run into many more car nuts that way which I think is a good thing.

And that division is bizarre to say the least. Boras, Meraks & Khamsins would then be covered in two spots because of when they were produced? What does that accomplish? If you supported some sort of division by models there should be a new activity section that is strictly about Maserati posts so that you don't have to go through all sections.

BTW Marc the 3200GT is a biturbo era car. The project began during the De Tomaso era.

 

Brilliant synopsis Marc.
I have highlighted those sections I find particularly important.

 

That works but V6, Merak, should be placed with the V8's as they are contemporary.

 

Hi Bob, no you misunderstood, I would index that on when a model came out: when it had its world premiere.

So the Citroen era would cover Indy, Bora, Merak, Khamsin, QPII. The De Tomaso period would cover Kyalami, QPIII, and all the Biturbos etc.

Of course to base the splits on each car's production date would be inane, surely you understood I did not mean that?

Then ALL Ghibli Spyders would be shuffled in the Citroen era because even though they had nothing to do with management decisions of that era they were actually assembled under Citroen ownership. Likewise the Merak continued well into the de Tomaso era but was created upon Malleret's order by Alfieri.

 

Much prefer the chronological clarity of:

-Maserati brothers era, 1914-1937
-Orsi era 1937-1968
-Citroen era 1968-1975 (the shortest but a revolutionary period for the firm)
-De Tomaso era 1975-1993
-Fiat era 3200GT onwards.

 

Fine.
However, what about Alfieri V8 models that are crossing these eras:
- where would stand the QP I (1963-1969), the Mexico (1966-1972) and Ghibli (1966-1973): Orsi era?
- and the Indy (1969-1975) with (early) and without (late) LHM, which is very close to the Ghibli: Citroen era?

 

As Marc suggests above:

..index on when a model came out: when it had its world premiere.

 

Why do you see it necessary to categorize the cars in this way?
I see it much more simply, from the view of people who want to find out information about a specific model and discuss it. There were a lot of "models" of Biturbos and I don't really see a need to break those out individually. Hardly anyone comes here to discus those anyway. But for the GT cars there aren't as many models of cars. Perhaps the early 6 cylinder cars under one section. Yes, Meraks belong with the Boras. But I don't think very many owners of the Merak care about who gave the order to create it. Like the Bora it crosses multiple ownership's of Maserati. Perhaps the Maserati historian in you is overwhelming common sense?

However one wants to organize things there's one huge problem with all of this. The legacy of all the existing posts and the lack of thread topic discipline. You can see that very recently with the new owner of Bora 1044 utilizing the Bora picture thread fort much more than the posting of pictures. It doesn't bother me all that much because I've helped manage 4 forums so far and one thing I know is that thread discipline is a quixotic goal at best.

People are going to post where they want and trying to play cleanup on this is a huge task if your goal is strict thread discipline. Who's going to do that?

So how would you distribute the current content?

I see this forum as a sometimes entertaining discussion forum and not as a repository of technical information though it does have plenty. But it has no capabilities for properly organizing that. That was never their goal. I don't think they're going to change that.

Perhaps before laying out a solution for reorganizing people should talk about what they want in terms of functionality and let Rob explain what's possible what is not. Always best to define the problem before trying to solve it.

 

What about two sections
Maserati models introduced before 1980 (includes, and ends with, the QP III)
Maserati models introduced after 1980 (starts with the first Biturbo in 1981)

See how it develops and decide later if more sections are necessary?.

 

What does that accomplish? I ask again just what is trying to be accomplished?
We need a problem statement.

 

I think the real problem we are trying to fix is one of identity and not so much of structure. I am okay not breaking things up into sections and making a bunch of changes. As Marc clearly stated, for too long Maserati has been in the shadows of Ferrari. As a community we should say no more, basta.
Ask yourself this question. Would the Ferrari community tolerate being a subgroup of Fiat forum and be located in the bottom under "Other Cars"? How about the BMW group being a subgroup of Mercedes Benz? I don't think so.
If people are happy with this platform, I have no objections. But we need to find a way of elevating the brand and for me the easiest way is as MaseratiChat.com

Ivan

 

+1000.

Rob please address this matter which clearly has support, you have not yet answered this point.
See my main post.

 

You clearly have an inability to listen and get antagonistic far too easily which I am not. I don't have an attitude I am trying to make this site better. Communication is my job as a journalist for 30 years incuding ten years for Cavallino, over twenty for the Ferrari Market Letter, articles in Prancing Horse, Scuderia in Japan, the Breadvan book and other non Ferrari books.

How one accesses a site is important.

Perhaps you don't understand what I am stating; create a best of both worlds situation whereby all of the forum sections stay together BUT one can click DIRECTLY on www.maseratichat.com from google or any search engine.

Then when one is in Maseratichat there should be the possibility, by clicking on a button on the top of screen to go to Ferrarichat lambo chat etc and the other way round of course. It is NOT separate but opening a direct access door.

Think about it, as Ivan has stated, as many have stated who won't even come here because it is vassaled to a Ferrarisite: give us a proper entrance not a backdoor one.

 

Could new people Google Maseratichat and find on their screen a direct link?

Over and out for tonight, need to have dinner 9.30 here. Goodnight.

 

There are other Maserati only websites out there. So ask yourselves this ... why do you insist upon affiliating with this one? I don't for Jaguar, Lamborghini or Biturbos because there are better places to go for that even though those cars are represented somewhat here.

Forum bickering has ruined a fair number forums in the past. Some of you got pissed at god knows what years ago the Yahoo Maserati Groups website and went off and formed a new one. Then that one died. Eventually some of you ended up here. It's been even worse in the Lamborghini community and the vintage Lamborghini community is so small by comparison with the Ferrari community. You can ask the OP directly about that!

I began playing with exotic cars in the SF Bay Area and at that time the Maserati and Lamborghini clubs did events together. We had to! We via MCI started what became Concourso Italiano and OMG there was club infighting but we got past all that and Ferrari was asked to join that event. A lot of those people owned multiple marques.

Life's too short to carry a chip on your shoulder over toys. If you feel slighted here as a Maserati owner I just think those feelings are misplaced.

 

While I still keep an eye on this forum, I have almost stopped posting here. I increasingly prefer other sites that are Maserati oriented. I just see no reason contributing to having to go to a Ferrari site to find information and follow discussions about (classic) Maserati.

 

Yes but this site is certainly (one of) the best to find knowledge, experience and interesting discussions concerning the classic Maserati's (pre-biturbo).
Hence the ongoing discussion.
For my part, I am not an expert on web technology and related issues but I would also welcome a direct access to Maserati when googling and a self standing Maserati forum.
The structure of that "maseratichat" (appropriately linked to F-chat) not being the prime issue, could be rather simple at the beginning to facilitate the transfer and ordering of the previous threads and accumulated knowledge.
Maserati has a much more profound past and racing roots than Lamborghini and McLaren, their participants are more conservative, and I doubt that creating Maseratichat would diminish its traffic compared to the current format.