Flexi - Wings are the hot topic today | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Flexi - Wings are the hot topic today

Discussion in 'F1' started by DF1, May 12, 2021.

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  1. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Looks like Toto feels this issue with the flexi-wings is a dead issue with regards to a protest.

    "Bored" Wolff yet to decide on F1 flexi-wing protest

    Tensions between Mercedes and Red Bull have escalated in recent weeks on the back of F1’s flexi-wing clampdown by the FIA.

    Mercedes is unhappy that rival Red Bull has been allowed to keep an advantage for using the flexi-wings for this weekend’s race in Baku, and has indicated that it may elect to protest the team if it continued to run them.

    A protest can be lodged immediately after any session, but no action was taken after practice on Friday or Saturday's qualifying session.

    However, the door remains open for Mercedes to take action in the immediate aftermath of the race.

    Wolff believes the flexi-wing saga has taken up too much of everyone’s time already, but says a final call on what his team will do has not been set in stone.

    He suggested that analysis of the wing Red Bull is using for the Baku race will be the first thing to look at, with the Milton Keynes-based team using a different configuration to the one that caused controversy at the Spanish Grand Prix.

    Asked by Autosport if there was going to be a protest, Wolff said: “Well I think the flexi-wing saga starts to bore everybody, including myself.

    “I guess we will see. I don't know what was on their car, and what they are going to have [for the race]. I think it's then to decide.”

    McLaren is the other team that has been unhappy about the delay in the FIA introducing tougher pull back tests to check on the rear wings.

    Its team principal Andreas Seidl made clear that it would leave matters to the governing body to decide if it takes action should teams be spotted running flexi-wings during the Baku race.

    “To be honest, I haven’t seen an analysis yet of what happened in qualifying. We were busy with ourselves, and we usually also try to just focus on ourselves,” he explained.

    “But I think the ball is in the court of the FIA to act if they think they have to act, within what is also written in the technical directive. So on our side, we just focus on ourselves now.”

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/bored-wolff-yet-to-decide-on-f1-flexi-wing-protest/6540214/
     
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  2. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    lol. Toto really waiting to see the race results before deciding whether to protest. If he does, then RB will protest MB’s front wing which apparently flexes far more than anyone else’s.
     
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  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    A protest against Red Bull rear wing will have more weight if the car wins, of course.

    A counter-protest against Mercedes should force the FIA to look at both issues.

    Interesting times ahead !
     
    classic308 likes this.
  4. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie



    Subtext; Toto is already frustrated with some genuine competition, despite his well rehearsed rhetoric
     
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  5. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    yep. I get it. It's the nature of the sport.
     
  6. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    7 year golden run with a passive Todt.

    Yet Wolff still wants to moan :D
     
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  7. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    BREAKING NEWS

    Technical Insight: How the FIA will test flexible-wings going forward



    excerpts from the article (the meat portion)


    Precisely for this reason, the regulatory changes that will come into force on June 15 are not unusual. The leaders of the FIA were also lenient with the teams, giving them time until the French GP to make all the rear wings conform to the new rules.

    Specifically, the rules of Articles 3.9.3 and 3.9.4 were simply tightened, where the various parameters and efforts to be applied were amplified.

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    In fact, from the French GP the rear wings will be subjected, during the FIA checks, to vertical forces of 100kg (+25kg compared to before), with a maximum flexion angle to always be respected of 1°.

    At the extremes of the airfoil, a horizontal rearward force of 75kg will be applied, compared to 50kg. Overall, the wing must not exceed 1mm of flexion, while the previously allowed tolerance was a maximum of 3mm.

    A presents a nice challenge for the technicians, especially for those teams like Red Bull who were very borderline with the old regulation. It will undoubtedly affect the teams’ budget, which remember, must respect the financial constraint imposed by the sporting regulations (budget cap).

    https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021/06/13/technical-insight-how-the-fia-will-test-flexible-wings-going-forward/
     
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  8. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Another political victory for Toto and Mercedes.
    A real shame again ..
     
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  9. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Many teams were affected very much independent of Mercedes. Toto is not afraid to be public about this, other teams contacted the FIA quietly. RedBull are happy to contact the FIA in the past and its drivers in the press call Ferrari cheaters. Clearly the FIA see an issue-- NOT conspiracy.
     
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  10. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    mathieu Jeantet

    Please stop taking me for a neophyte! It’s insulting in the long run..
     
  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    This is only tightening the rules to redress any wayward interpretation .

    How this is making some tifosi paranoid, I don't know. :p
     
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  12. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Are they also updating the front wing tests ?
    Mercedes front wing seems extra flexi
     
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  13. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    FIA make constant adjustment. Most series do.
     
  14. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Nope.

    If the FIA wants to crack down on wings flexing fine, but keep it fair and do it for both.
     
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  15. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

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    Agree - normal FIA practice slow any one down who may have played the rules, and leave any Mercedes area that is probably not in the spirit of the rules alone
     
  16. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Not doing both wing's is ridiculous. Clean it all up.
     
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  17. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Do they do this test with the reaction through the entire chassis and wheels, and is the deflection measured relative to the ground? If so, ridiculous.
     
  18. simpen

    simpen Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2016
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    Flexing in itself is not the issue, it is flexing more than necessary to gain a performance advantage. A flexing rear wing has a relatively simple, DRS-like performance advantage. A flexing front wing has a much more convoluted effect, because parts of the front wing are used to guide air to the right places downstream. Much more confuse what performance, if any, is gained. It just does not work in the same way.
     
  19. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    If the front wing flex has no performance gain :)p:p:p), there surely shouldn't be any harm/objection from Mercedes to have a test to stop front wing flex as well.

    Glad we're on the same page!
     
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  20. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Pre-StyrianGP2021



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    New dispute over flexible aero parts

    Mercedes front wing in sight


    First the flexible rear wing, now the front wing. Mercedes is suspected of overstretching the limits with its front air control unit. Recordings from the TV cameras suggest at least a certain flexibility. Red Bull has already submitted a request to the FIA for clarification.



    The President sums it up. "More competition, more controversy," says FIA chief Jean Todt. There is no calm this season. Mercedes and Red Bull extend their elbows on and off the racetrack. It has not yet crashed between the top stars Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen, but the team leadership clashed several times. It's about wings and, in the background, also about tires.

    Red Bull feels unjustly denounced. First of all through the fall of the flexible rear wing that Mercedes had pushed in. The subject of dispute was heated up at the Spanish GP and ended with the Technical Directive TD018. The FIA has tightened the load tests before the French GP by doubling the load on the rear wing. Until England there is still a tolerance of 20 percent to exceed the limit values described of a maximum of one degree of deflection.



    No fear of controls

    The clarification forced the championship leader to stiffen his rear wing construction. The team leadership makes no secret of the fact that this involves costs of around half a million dollars. In times of budget constraints, in which the top teams have to shrink to health and haggle over every thousand, a constructive change hurts twice - especially since it was not planned in the budget.





    Most of all, however, Red Bull finds it difficult to have been pushed into a corner, to have done something disreputable and to only be able to beat Mercedes through such means. Red Bull never rattled through an FIA test. In France, the great challenger proved that he hadn't lost any of his pace. On the contrary: The Red Bulls were faster than ever on the straights and, as usual, strong in the corners. Verstappen raced to pole position and won the race.


    The increased air pressures could not slow Red Bull either. After the tire damage in Baku, the suspicion wafted through the paddock that some teams - like with the rear wings - are pushing their limits a little more than others and maybe even working with unfair methods. There was talk of excessive lowering of the air pressure. Red Bull was among the suspects.


    But the misconduct could not be proven by the watchdogs. As is the case with Aston Martin. Both teams did not meet Pirelli's expectations of tire pressure in the race, which is far from a criminal offense. At Red Bull they say that at no point did they go below the specified parameters for the tires. If you handle the tires better, it is due to better material - the rims and the brake ventilation, for example. At no time were you afraid of controls and did not continue to do so.


    Red Bull counterattack

    Now Red Bull is taking a counterstrike and is devoting itself to the front wing of the arch-rival. In principle, this is not new, because Red Bull had already pointed a finger at the front of the W12 in the course of the flexi-rear wing debate. But after studying photos and recordings of the TV cameras in France, Milton Keynes made the rulers more aware of the need to take a closer look at the Mercedes front wing.




    "We have deposited the issue with the FIA. They look at the case and make a decision," it says from team circles. Red Bull hopes to clarify what is allowed here and where the line runs. If you castrate the rear wing, why not also the front wing flaps, which at Mercedes lie back on the straight and move back to their starting position when you brake?

    The question is whether that is still in the frame or not. Behind the scenes, Red Bull would like to see a technical directive aimed at arch rivals. You will not conjure up real unrest at Mercedes. The defending champion is too tough for that. And the front wing of Red Bull is not completely stiff in the airstream, as video images show. So it could just be a diversion.


    And even if Mercedes had to improve the front wing (and maybe other teams), the FIA will certainly grant a transition period, as with the rear wing. It would probably not be a game changer anyway. A very good racing car remains a very good racing car. The contenders agree on one point. Clarifications from the FIA are important, but control is crucial.

    The regulatory authority currently has its hands full. The big problem: The technology has become more and more complicated in recent years. Not just the engine. Solutions for aerodynamics and other areas of cars are also becoming more and more delicate. In order to monitor everything, you would actually need an army of employees and our own engineers. Or the set of rules has to become simpler. In 2022, at least on paper, less complicated cars will come.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/neue-debatte-um-bewegliche-aerodynamikteile-mercedes-frontfluegel-im-visier/&prev=search&pto=aue




     
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  21. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

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    Todt will do nothing he is just taking the pay cheques now, not quite as useless as Balestre but not far off.
     
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