550 won’t start | FerrariChat

550 won’t start

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Olivier Faure, May 31, 2021.

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  1. Olivier Faure

    Olivier Faure Rookie

    Jul 10, 2020
    13
    Full Name:
    Olivier Faure
    Hi Everyone,

    I am a new owner of 550 Maranello 1997 based in Dubai. Since I bought the car 2 months ago, this forum has become my favourite read.

    First thing I did when I got the car from a local dealer was to change all fluids and get it checked by a local Indy. Then I drove her for a month with no issue to report. I then almost ran out of petrol and re-filled the tank. I underestimated the consumption! Shortly after that I experience a first difficult cold start (I had to crank twice before starting). Then a second time a day later. Two days later I decided to get the underbody cleaned using high pressure water (second mistake! ). I then managed to start the car several times on that day. 5 days later, I tried to start the car as usual pressing the clutch pedal and not touching the throttle pedal. Immobiliser light turned solid red after pressing the node. Got the check ok light. Lots of power to crank but no firing. Not even a sign that the car is almost ready to start.
    I then checked the battery voltage 12.9v; rated 680EN; measured 656EN. Battery seems to hold power.
    I then checked fuel pressure on both side; psi 59 after cranking and holding at 50 after 10mins approx.
    I hear the fuel pump priming. Do you have an idea of what I should do next or what could be the pb?
    The car seem to have been maintained regularly in the past 8 years but was checked and repaired in Oct 2020 at the Ferrari dealer who checked immo ECU connector, crankshaft position sensor connector and door wiring connector, etc... (quote from the invoice)
    Any help would be most appreciated!
    Thanks



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  2. franschman

    franschman Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2017
    349
    Holland
    Full Name:
    Bart
    Does it spark?
    Check with a timing lamp or remove a plug and hold it to the engine while cranking. If you do the latter, crank and smell petrol from the plug hole you can be sure that the fuel side works good enough to at least start.
     
  3. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2010
    3,665
    Oslo
    Full Name:
    Erik
    If you do that, the engine will start on 11 cylinders and there is a big risk you can get a electric shock from the plier you hold the spark plug with. I find it very strange thst if will not start. Never experienced that on any Ferrari. The inertia (fuel pump crash cut out switch) must bi on of course. There are two connectors under the coil packs. If they have a bad connection, the plugs will not spark, but it is very unlikely that both have bad connection at the same time...
     
  4. rhern213

    rhern213 Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2021
    576
    Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Richel
    I agree with @F456M , since these cars have 2 separate banks for everything it would be very rare that it won't start due to mechanical issues.
    Since you mentioned the immobilizer light solid red, my first suspect for your starting issues is the immobilizer not recognizing you deactivating it.
    Are you absolutely certain the immobilizer is deactivating? Do you hear the typical beeps when pressing the key fob button?
    Try 2 different ways, try turning off the immobilizer before you unlock and get in the car, if not then try turning the immobilizer off after the ignition is on "check ok".
    Also can try with either doors closed/locked/open in different combinations, you never know with these cars.

    There are many different immobilizer issues that can be happening and posts on the forum you can search for ways to try and fix it.
    A common issue is the immobilizer goes "out-of-sync" with the fob. You can try pressing the immobilizer button 3 times within 10 seconds and see if that may work?
     
  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
    11,484
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    Ian Riddell
    According to the wiring diagrams, the immobiliser should stop cranking. It seems strange that it would allow cranking, but not ignition, but a solid red LED doesn't sound right either. This is a sign that something is wrong. That might explain why the dealer was checking the ECU connector.

    Have you tried using the black master fob?
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    Get under check crank sensors

    immo active 550's do not crank. immo off a 550 can crank
     
  7. rhern213

    rhern213 Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2021
    576
    Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Richel
    Ahh, correct, if the immobilizer is on it wouldn't do anything, that's out the window.
     
  8. AVIMAX

    AVIMAX Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2014
    686
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    550 will not crank if the immobilized is armed. The LED goes from flashing to solid after pressing the fob button to disarm. If the sensor on the back of one of the RHS cams used for ignition timing has died, it won’t start.
     
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Not sure I understand. On the 550, does the LED go steady, then extinguish? My '98 gated F355 has the same immobiliser. The LED goes out straight away after disarming. no steady red for any time period. Steady red on my car means a fault e.g. faulty siren battery.

    Different wires coming from the immobiliser enable the starter and the engine ECU. One working doesn't necessarily mean the other is working. If the previous owner was looking at ECU plugs, then I wouldn't rule out the immobiliser/wiring.
     
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  10. AVIMAX

    AVIMAX Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2014
    686
    Toronto
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    Ryan
    Just checked my car to be sure I am remembering correctly. When my car is in my garage and therefore not locked, I usually push the fob button after turning the key and waiting for the CHECK OK. In this situation the LED goes from flashing to solid after the button is pressed. It stays solid for a few seconds and then goes out after a few more seconds, it does not stay lit.
     
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  11. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Thanks for the clarification, Ryan.

    Olivier, do you mean the same thing? A solid light for a few seconds? If so, @fatbillybob 's suggestion sounds good.
     
  12. ///Mink

    ///Mink Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2006
    808
    Fair Oaks, CA
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    Tom Mink

    Yes, here's a video I took a few years ago. You can see the LED operation.

     
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  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Thanks, Tom. Interesting. I just rechecked mine. On my F355 I get the increased flash rate when I enter the car, but pressing the fob only makes the LED illuminate steady for 1 second at most. Hard to distinguish from the flashing. So there is definitely a difference between the two cars.
     
  14. rhern213

    rhern213 Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2021
    576
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    Richel
    Any reasoning to turning off the immobilizer after turning on the ignition? I've always turned it off before putting the key in.
     
  15. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I suppose there is the distraction issue. You turn off the immobiliser prior to putting the key in the ignition, but are then distracted ... and by the time you have the key in the ignition, the immobiliser has automatically rearmed, so you have to push the fob button again. Of course, you could be distracted by something after the key has been inserted and turned, but I think you would be more focussed at that point.
     
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  16. ///Mink

    ///Mink Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2006
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    #16 ///Mink, May 31, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
    I originally made that video to counter the myth that you needed to lock/unlock the car to start it if the immobilizer had kicked on with the doors unocked, ie while refueling or parked in the garage. Doug DeMuro made a big (uninformed) deal about it a few years ago (starts at around 5:20):

     
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  17. rhern213

    rhern213 Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2021
    576
    Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Richel
    Ahhh got it, yeah I had seen that video before I got my 550 and thought afterwards it didn't make sense because I can switch it off at any time in any situation. I assumed the owner of that car would've instructed him that it was necessary and the car might have had some issues.

    I remember he also said the only way to open the trunk was with the dash switch and you were screwed if the battery died. o_O
     
  18. AVIMAX

    AVIMAX Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2014
    686
    Toronto
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    Ryan
    I disarm after turning the key if I don't want to hear the siren chirp.
     
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  19. Olivier Faure

    Olivier Faure Rookie

    Jul 10, 2020
    13
    Full Name:
    Olivier Faure
    That’s correct. The solid light actually stay on. It has been the case since I got the car. I will be back this weekend so I will follow your recommendations including checking the crank sensors on both side and report back to the group. Thanks for all your help!


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  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,985
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    Sometimes the alarm siren going out will inhibit start. Gobble can fix you up with a new one for much less than OEM.
     
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  21. Olivier Faure

    Olivier Faure Rookie

    Jul 10, 2020
    13
    Full Name:
    Olivier Faure
    thanks for your advice to check the alarm module. I unplugged the siren module but unfortunately still no firing. It seem to be an original siren module . I also continue to have a solid red light on the dashboard after disactivation the immo. I try my 3 fob but no luck. I also decided to clean all electric connectors and check the air filter. Looks like my car has been taking air with quite bit of sand!!! Image Unavailable, Please Login
    I will try to identify and check the crank sensors tomorrow.


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  22. Olivier Faure

    Olivier Faure Rookie

    Jul 10, 2020
    13
    Full Name:
    Olivier Faure
    Hi everyone, still not starting! It might be worth mentioning that actioning the fob doesnt generate any beep.Also the siren doesn’t make any noice and after desactivating the immo,the light remain solid.
    I try to access the crank sensors but I suppose that I need to take the central undercarriage protection off first.
    Last thing, i didn’t check ignition yet. I am waiting for a timing light gun I ordered tdy.


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  23. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Did your siren normally make a noise when disarming and arming? Some countries don’t allow this.

    Since your car is cranking, you may have several unrelated problems: A simple siren battery problem which shouldn’t prevent cranking and an ignition or fuel problem.

    Note that the crank sensors (“Angolar speed sensors”)are behind the engine on the bell housing.

    https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/550-maranello/transmission-pedals/clutch-controls-19850

    Note that if you do wiring checks, that the left and right sensors are located on the right and left side of the bell housing (respectively). I don’t know if you can start a 550 with only one inoperative. Experts?
     
  24. Olivier Faure

    Olivier Faure Rookie

    Jul 10, 2020
    13
    Full Name:
    Olivier Faure
    Thx Qavion. It is European car delivered in Italy in 1997. I am not sure if it is normal but it was mentioned by Dubai Ferrari dealership as a malfunction in their report.

    The crank sensor cable seems in good shape. I will have to put the car on a lift to check it better though.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login


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  25. AVIMAX

    AVIMAX Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2014
    686
    Toronto
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    Ryan
    #25 AVIMAX, Jun 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
    That's an O2 sensor connector. The crank sensor connectors are further back attached to the bottom of the bell housing, just behind the clutch inspection plate with the holes. You have to remove the cover that seems like some sort of fibre material to get to the connectors. One should be blue (or have a blue band), the other black
     
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